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U.S. may put emergency tariffs on solar imports

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  • U.S. may put emergency tariffs on solar imports

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN18P1JL

    Thoughts? Will this save US companies? Will this cause price increases?

  • #2
    It will certainly raise the price of solar panels. It may help the few US companies that still build solar panels but my fear is that without competition they will just raise their prices because that is the American way.

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    • #3
      This will undoubtedly raise the price of solar in the US. I believe they are looking to impose tariffs in the range of $.40/Watt which would nearly double the current module prices. If this goes through, it will deal a huge blow to a rapidly expanding market.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by emartin00 View Post
        This will undoubtedly raise the price of solar in the US. I believe they are looking to impose tariffs in the range of $.40/Watt which would nearly double the current module prices. If this goes through, it will deal a huge blow to a rapidly expanding market.
        It will hurt the homeowner market but IMO the Utilities will still be able to justify their MW systems.

        While I am looking forward to installing a system around 6k to 7k in a year or so I expect that it will be harder to justify one based on ROI.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by NateHornblower View Post
          http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN18P1JL

          Thoughts? Will this save US companies? Will this cause price increases?
          Since you're asking for thoughts, tariffs are bad. Overall, prices will go up, competition will suffer and product quality will go down, no different than any other tariff situation.

          The %age of total panels in use in N. America that are truly N. American made is quite small. That %age will be going up some, but will probably never be a large number. Panels are a commodity. N.America simply cannot compete on commodity goods, mostly because of lower wages and policies in the rest of the world. Deal with it.

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          • #6
            Simple prices will go up artificially and that will lower sales. The USA cannot compete with Chi-Coms. In the USA Wages, Corporate taxes, are to high, OSHA and EPA regulations are to strict. The USA has done everything they can possible do to run manufacturing off to another country. The beneficiaries are Chi-Coms, India and Mexico. That is one reason why Chump won, and Billiary and dems got thrown out of office.
            MSEE, PE

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Sunking View Post
              Simple prices will go up artificially and that will lower sales. The USA cannot compete with Chi-Coms. In the USA Wages, Corporate taxes, are to high, OSHA and EPA regulations are to strict. The USA has done everything they can possible do to run manufacturing off to another country. The beneficiaries are Chi-Coms, India and Mexico. That is one reason why Chump won, and Billiary and dems got thrown out of office.
              While other things add to the woes, I'd suggest that down at the bottom line it's about the fact that wages and bennie costs are much lower in other countries. If the U. S. is willing to become a 3d world country faster than the current headlong rush, it only needs to continue on the present course. The pendulum will begin to swing back once the U.S. educational system is completely useless.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post
                The pendulum will begin to swing back once the U.S. educational system is completely useless.
                That happened 30 years ago. When you and I graduated from High School is equivalent to today's BS grad in college. Today a college grad needs to be MS or Phd to get ahead. USA public education system has failed big time, Unions and lower standards so idiots can graduate HS have everything to do with it. All a result of political correctness. A public HS diploma today is useless. A high percentage of HS grads today are illiterate and cannot do simple math or any critical thinking. They use to be called Dunces or Morons.
                MSEE, PE

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

                  While other things add to the woes, I'd suggest that down at the bottom line it's about the fact that wages and bennie costs are much lower in other countries. If the U. S. is willing to become a 3d world country faster than the current headlong rush, it only needs to continue on the present course. The pendulum will begin to swing back once the U.S. educational system is completely useless.
                  Actually in PV module manufacturing it is more about supply chain and economies of scale than wages. The process is very highly automated, so labor is really a small percentage of cost. The factories in Asia are much larger than the ones in the US, and the supply chains for the components are larger as well.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by emartin00 View Post

                    Actually in PV module manufacturing it is more about supply chain and economies of scale than wages. The process is very highly automated, so labor is really a small percentage of cost. The factories in Asia are much larger than the ones in the US, and the supply chains for the components are larger as well.
                    Still the cost to pay US workers (even in an automated factory) will be much higher than the pay for off shore factories. The US is fighting an uphill battle with other countries because the workers expect a higher wage which is then passed on to the cost of the product.

                    There is also the overhead of the factory and probably the lack of federal incentives for the US manufacturers as compared to a factory in Asia.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sunking View Post
                      That happened 30 years ago. When you and I graduated from High School is equivalent to today's BS grad in college. Today a college grad needs to be MS or Phd to get ahead. USA public education system has failed big time, Unions and lower standards so idiots can graduate HS have everything to do with it. All a result of political correctness. A public HS diploma today is useless. A high percentage of HS grads today are illiterate and cannot do simple math or any critical thinking. They use to be called Dunces or Morons.
                      I was thinking about this when I drove by a jobsite yesterday. Prevailing wage job. You have 4 people with stop/slow signs in their hands directing traffic in front of the site making $37.50 an hour. The only requirement is knowing the difference between STOP and SLOW. Knowing a couple of them, I wondered if they really were qualified.
                      2.2kw Suntech mono, Classic 200, NEW Trace SW4024

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by emartin00 View Post

                        Actually in PV module manufacturing it is more about supply chain and economies of scale than wages. The process is very highly automated, so labor is really a small percentage of cost. The factories in Asia are much larger than the ones in the US, and the supply chains for the components are larger as well.
                        While I think I agree with that logic, the question in my mind is why then, in general, do things usually considered commodity items that are made outside North America generally cost less, in some cases by a lot, than things made in North America ?

                        I suppose labor intensive mfg. processes such as textiles or more one off type stuff like precision or specialized instrument mfg. might be better in the U.S. if we hadn't lost most of those skills, or, perhaps more accurately, spinelessly gave them up.

                        I appreciate the idea that gov. regs., etc. can add to costs, and certainly part of the reason why free markets do not necessarily imply level playing fields. The cost/benefit of those things being a different conversation (and perhaps moot, and being unanswerable except as opinion) for perhaps another time.

                        But, my cynical side makes me want to think that while those compliance costs do indeed exist, there's more than a bit of a red herring in using that justification for the often U.S. price disparity vs. a lot of the rest of the world, particularly for mass produced goods.
                        Last edited by J.P.M.; 05-31-2017, 10:25 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sunking View Post
                          That happened 30 years ago. When you and I graduated from High School is equivalent to today's BS grad in college. Today a college grad needs to be MS or Phd to get ahead. USA public education system has failed big time, Unions and lower standards so idiots can graduate HS have everything to do with it. All a result of political correctness. A public HS diploma today is useless. A high percentage of HS grads today are illiterate and cannot do simple math or any critical thinking. They use to be called Dunces or Morons.
                          And, if what I think see is any reflection of reality, they now show up at places like this with increasing frequency. The country is dying of Alzheimer's. Not sure when it started. 30 yrs. ago is as good a number as any.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

                            And, if what I think see is any reflection of reality, they now show up at places like this with increasing frequency. The country is dying of Alzheimer's. Not sure when it started. 30 yrs. ago is as good a number as any.
                            When you go to a bowling alley and see people not being able to keep score using a pencil and paper you know that the ability to do simple math is now gone.

                            IMO The current generation depends too much on technology to do the basic things we were taught in grade school. If there is every a long power outage or cell phone system failure most young people would be lost and not be able to do any computations.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by SunEagle View Post

                              When you go to a bowling alley and see people not being able to keep score using a pencil and paper you know that the ability to do simple math is now gone.

                              IMO The current generation depends too much on technology to do the basic things we were taught in grade school. If there is every a long power outage or cell phone system failure most young people would be lost and not be able to do any computations.
                              Probably more than just young folks, but they're easier to recognize. Since they don't seem to see a need to do any computations now - just get manipulated by results they generally don't understand - I'm not sure what a power outage would do to the recognition of computational needs as much as it would lead to complete bewilderment from a lack of being told what to do and how to think.

                              Like most everything else in life: Use it or lose it. Palm zombies are one rather obvious result. We're well on the way to becoming a nation of morons. Used to be there was math phobia. That's gone. Hard to fear what you don't know exists.

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