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Newbie considering solar - but worth it?

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  • Newbie considering solar - but worth it?

    Hello All, thanks for the add to this forum! Didn't even know such a place existed until I googled. Thankful for the collection of knowledge and enthusiasm here!

    I just wanted to get anyone's thoughts on my situation right now as I assume you guys have more experience than I do. Im in california / san francisco and have gotten quotes from Solarcity, Luminalt and Repower so far with Sunrun incoming. Yet I feel that I cant fully trust companies to tell me the whole truth, hence why im here. Im a pretty low electricity user:
    • With PG&E, my average monthly electric bill $40
    • All solar quotes ive gotten seem to hang around $7k for about 1.8KW after rebates/incentives (some quoted sunpower, some LG panels)
    • All solar quotes point to around a 10 year ROI which im fine with
    • Seems like my only ongoing cost would be PG&Es $10/month fee to use the grid to sell back power/buy power at night
    • I plan to own if I buy panels
    • The weather here is iffy. Mostly cloudy. But online estimates and as well as these companies that quoted me seem to factor that into their data.

    Ive asked neighbors and friends if this is a good gamble/worth it and none have come across as stating it would be negative. The only reason I am even considering solar is because I am redoing my roof and might as well consider all options to maximize returns/investments

    There are a couple of my own concerns:
    • what if laws change and this becomes a wash in the future? I guess I cant control this factor.
    • what happens after these panels die? whats that cost of removal or do i just leave them up there?
    • when panels die, do I just switch back to the grid for my usage?
    • are there any factors that i havent scenario-ized in my head that would kill my ROI?
    • is my power bill low enough already to give me little headroom to save if there is a law change?

    Any comments appreciated? Should I pull the trigger on solar? Thank you in advance!
    Last edited by b16707; 05-01-2017, 03:09 AM.

  • #2
    Hello b16707 and welcome to Solar Panel Talk. I would advise you to get a few more quotes you can try www.solarreviews.com and or www.solar-estimate.org (both site sponsors)

    If you get in now it doent really matter what happens in the future you will get the 30% fed tax rebate, dont know about net metering that will go away one day and be replaced with a Fit ( feed in tariff) well thats my opinion and they do vary.

    Panels dont generally die, they have a 25 year warranty and if they last that long they could put out power for another 10 years, they do degrade in time, so if you plan on being in your current property for 25 years or more you might want to consider a slightly larger system.

    In all honesty if you were one of my clients with a $40 per month bill I would suggest you might be better off with new higher efficiency appliances, but if you were committed to going down the solar road I would still sell you a system

    Comment


    • #3
      +1 Solar Pete.
      With a small system, as proposed, at what seems a pretty high cost per watt and poor sun I would be happy with those low utility bills. What would the monthly payments be, if financed, to save 30 dollars a month?
      2.2kw Suntech mono, Classic 200, NEW Trace SW4024

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      • #4
        I'm very new here myself and know little about solar, but according to my calculations the ROI on $7000 at a $30 per month savings is closer to 20 years not 10.

        Gary

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        • #5
          Thanks for the helpful responses!

          I did do www.solar-estimate.org however their lowest bill setting was $100 haha. First red flag that I may not be the best candidate for solar.

          Net metering is probably the only (other than the fed tax credit) reason why it would be worth it but if thats going to go away, which I assume quite possible too, It makes this not worth it at all as it will take me 20+ years on a return. I could probably make that money back faster in the stock market with just as much risk. Although the articles im reading state that the new proposed laws probably wont affect people already doing net metering, only to new customers.

          Im pretty much stuck at $40. All LED bulbs. House recently remodeled with latest appliances. Its only during the winter months of Dec and Jan do we use an electric space heater that drives up the bill to $100+. Im guessing this will increase in the future if I have more kids.

          So far my gut feeling is to not do it. If net metering is at stake and if I have no batteries to store the power i generate for when i do actually use the power (at night), it doesnt seem worthwhile.
          Last edited by b16707; 05-01-2017, 11:52 AM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by b16707 View Post
            Im pretty much stuck at $40. All LED bulbs. House recently remodeled with latest appliances. Its only during the winter months of Dec and Jan do we use an electric space heater that drives up the bill to $100+
            You might consider a ventless NG/propane heater to take care of the cold months. They've gotten quite good.

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            • #7
              With a $500/yr. electric bill and as you say, iffy weather, if your purpose is to reduce your electric bill further in anything like a cost effective manner, solar is probably not an option for you at this time, particulay considering you'll never get a bill lower than ~ 120/yr. less CA climate credit. If you want to follow the tree hugger crowd, cost effectiveness be damned and save the planet or make a political/cultural statement, run PVWatts and size accordingly. Read the help screens first and use 10% system losses instead of the 14 % default that the model uses.

              If you still want solar, get educated before you proceed further: Download "Solar Power Your Home for Dummies" for free, or spend ~ $25 at bookstores or Amazon for an undated version.

              Lastly, do what you want but know that SsolarCity, Sunrun, Vivant and the like are IMO, bottom feeders and also know that leasing is a shortsighted way to lose money and future options.

              You're doing fine without PV. Others with huge electric bills and matching arrays on their property should be doing as well.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by jflorey2 View Post
                You might consider a ventless NG/propane heater to take care of the cold months. They've gotten quite good.
                But none are code approved in California.

                Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
                  But none are code approved in California.
                  Agreed. But scofflaw that I am, I might consider getting one from (say) Arizona, where they are approved. If I needed a heater, that is.

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                  • #10
                    Ill personally shy away from explosive gases =), that and having to refill propane. I assume you have to refill the propane on those?

                    Sunrun just canceled on me saying they cant do flat roofs (only composite shingle?). Well thats the last nail in the coffin. Not doing this solar thing. Thanks for all the comments all! Very VERY helpful

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by b16707 View Post
                      Ill personally shy away from explosive gases =), that and having to refill propane. I assume you have to refill the propane on those?

                      Sunrun just canceled on me saying they cant do flat roofs (only composite shingle?). Well thats the last nail in the coffin. Not doing this solar thing. Thanks for all the comments all! Very VERY helpful
                      Makes sense to me on the not for now part on solar. Besides, Sunrun is one of the bottom feeders to avoid.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

                        Makes sense to me on the not for now part on solar. Besides, Sunrun is one of the bottom feeders to avoid.
                        "bottom feeders" as in how? They get all the solarcity rejects?

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                        • #13
                          i wouldnt mess with solar power unless you like the idea and are a tech geek kinda person .. your bill is so low that saving money doesnt come into play in your lifetime lol ... if it was a couple of hundred bucks a month i would say a grid tied setup could defray your costs and kindof pay for itself eventually ..

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by b16707 View Post

                            "bottom feeders" as in how? They get all the solarcity rejects?
                            As the guy in my HOA that reviews, recommends to the Arch. Rev. Comm. all the solar jobs in my HOA, and after seeing more than enough of Sunrun's work and trying to deal with them for answers and issues, IMO only, I believe they have a lack of knowledgeable people, from top to bottom. Their equipment often comes from the lowest bidder, their labor often comes from the big box parking lot, their business practices are poor in terms of following the contract, and they lack integrity. SolarCity and Vivant are right down there with them. I personally wouldn't let any of those three on my property.
                            Last edited by J.P.M.; 05-01-2017, 10:25 PM.

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