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  • Suggestion about a hybrid system

    Hi,

    I would like some help figuring out what I can do to solve some power issues. I live in a remote location in Africa and the grid power is really really bad. It is oscillating between 140v and 210v, rarely getting past the 210 to the 220v I should get.

    I do not have the financial means to go off grid with solar, but I would like to know if there is any way to go hybrid in my case?

    Is it possible to merge together the power coming from grid with battery stored power (from solar)?

    I also thought of converting grid power to dc and store it in baytery and then back from battery to ac but I dont have a clue if that would work.

    Any suggestion?

    Kind regards
    Raphael

  • #2

    welcome.
    Wow
    > oscillating between 140v and 210v, rarely getting past the 210 to the 220v I should get.
    Even making a simple UPS system is going to be tough with such a wide voltage swing, I don't know many chargers that can take such variation,
    Any thoughts on how much power you need to store? 2 small lights and a fan? 6 fans, 20 lights and 3 refrigerators ?

    First is to figure your loads and how much battery you need. Then plan the inverter, what's it peak load starting requirement.
    Then shop for charger.

    Does anyone else in your neighborhood have a working setup you can copy with same brands ?

    Hybrid inverters may not accept the poor grid voltage and never charge the batteries, so you may need a separate stupid battery charger
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Mike, thank you so much for your reply.
      The 140v swing is usually at pick hours when it get dark, it keep swinging that much for about 3 hours. The rest of the day it is in the 160-210 range.

      Our load is around that :
      1 fridge, 1 freezer, 1 washing machine (no hot water), 1 electric boiler, 1x 800 watts water pump that works regularly, 1x 1600 watts water pump that run sporadically, 4 fans, 2 AC (16000 and 18000 btu)
      That's the main things. Then you got light bulbs, i would say no more than 20 x 10 watts at one given time.

      Basically right now forget about 2 ac, even just one it stops every 5 min even on a 4000 w regulator. Just the fan oscillate so much that it almost stops at low peaks...

      I don't know of anyone having a setup that works around here though about 10 years ago I had a friend that brought equipments from new zealand and made it work for a few years, but he is long gone now.
      For the material I will probably have to look to import it from a neighboring country like south africa, dont worry about brands then.

      Raphael

      Thank you so much for taking the time to look into this. Even just a basic idea of the setup needed and a few leads means a lot.

      Comment


      • #4
        I forgot to mention that we have 3 phases.

        Comment


        • #5
          Wow - sounds like a mess.
          3 phase, I don't know that market at all, I know the North American 240V gear, which is single phase.

          But forget about trying to run the washing machine, water boiler fridge and air conditioning, they consume a lot of power.
          How critical are the pumps, they too, consume a lot. A dozen lights and a couple fans, should be easily doable.

          Lets "assume" 6 hours of outage/bad power. Bad power won't hurt the boiler.
          20 bulbs, 10 watts each = 200watts x 6 hours = 1200 watt hours
          4 fans @ 100 w ea = 400 watts x 6 hours = 2400 Wh
          TV @ 100w = 600Wh
          total = 4200wh
          to allow for best battery life, limit discharge to 50% of the battery size. Which would be a 8400wh battery, At 24VDC, it would be 350 amp hours

          Now you have to decide how much battery you want to buy.
          Large Marine deep cycle battery 12V 100Ah ( would need 8 batteries in series/parallel, in a very clumsy configuration)
          G-2 golf cart battery 6v, 200Ah ( 8 batteries in series/parallel )
          L-16 tall battery 6v, 325Ah (4 batteries in series )

          So, thats the initial guess at sizing the battery bank,

          Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
          || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
          || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

          solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
          gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks Mike, I appreciate your time spent on this.
            I would say that the 800 watt pump is needed as it is how we get enough water pressure for showers.

            I do get it about the high consumption of those appliances. I guess I could have those on 2 of the phases and only work this system on the third phase for those lights, fans as you calculated there.

            I can get marine deep cycle of 90 Ah here.

            Would I need to disconnect from the grid during those 6 hours to just use the batteries or can the grid continue to fill up the batteries even though slower than usual due to low power? If that's the case can't we assume the battery bank will discharge at half the watts consumption rate?

            Comment


            • #7
              If you can possibly skip the showers, and needing to run the pump, that would be a lot better. to run the pump, you need to estimate the actual run time (30 minutes = 0.5hour) and then increase the battery bank size accordingly

              Charging. It all depends on the charger, if it can extract any power from the weak grid.
              Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
              || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
              || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

              solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
              gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

              Comment


              • #8
                Do you have any recomendation about the charger, any brand or specific model?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Iota makes some good chargers that accept "universal power" and may tolerate the low voltage you have.
                  http://www.iotaengineering.com/power.htm
                  Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                  || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                  || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                  solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                  gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks for your time. Really appreciate it, I do have now more of an idea of what I'm looking for.

                    Could you just confirm that I understand the overall process roght?

                    1. Grid power (ac, one of my 3 phases) goes straight to a battery charger coupled to a charge controler
                    2. From there it fill up the batteries (dc)

                    3. An inverter convert back the dc current from the battery and 'send' it to one of the phase of my main panel.

                    Does that looks right?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Almost.
                      is:

                      1. Grid power (ac, one of my 3 phases) goes straight to a battery charger coupled to a charge controler
                      should be

                      1. Grid power (ac, one of my 3 phases) goes straight to a battery charger configured for the species of battery I have installed

                      The battery charger IS the charger controller. You just have to be sure the charger is the right kind for your batteries, and large enough to rapidly charge them
                      Since it runs off the grid, it could be a 3 phase charger.

                      Before you can send power to a phase of your house, you need a Transfer Switch. It's best to have a large automatic transfer switch installed (it's not a do-it-yourself) and then you don't have to manually flip it from Grid to Inverter. The Transfer switch keeps your inverter from lighting up your neighbors house, or the utility repairman on the pole.
                      Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                      || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                      || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                      solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                      gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Wonderful, thanks so much!

                        Comment

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