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  • PPA So. Cal. please advise

    Hello, after getting 3 quotes from various solar installers I am leaning towards solarcity and there proposed figures are as follows

    2.88 kW DC sys size
    4,863 kWh

    A. pay as you go (.17 per kwh)
    0 down, $69 per month, 3.9 annual increase

    B. custom (.177 kwh)
    $2069 down, $62 per month, 0 annual increase

    C. prepay (.083 kwh)
    $7670 down, $0 per month, 0 increase

    D. purchase (.131 kwh)
    sys cost $18,175, out of pocket $17,309, Net Cost $12,117

    The components were not specified by SolarCity.

    I am leaning towards option B since I only have a couple thousand spare in bank to apply right now. Please share your opinions thoughts on this quote and any advice.

    Thanks

  • #2
    Do you need solar? or just want it?

    Do you need solar? or just want it? What I mean by this is is your electric bill high enough that your solar payment will be lower than your current electric bill? It looks like you are looking at about 12 240w no name panels. Is this due to size restraints on your roof? Are you SCE? LADWP? SDGE? A zip code your annual usage in Kw, along with roof type and age will give us more insight as to the quality of your quote. First impressions are it seems like there is room for downward movement in the price but at this size the soft costs are far greater than the cost of the equipment.

    Comment


    • #3
      2.88KW is somewhat small for solar to be cost effective if your current electric bill costs are below a certain point per kWh. See if you can answer the questions above about your current usage. It may be best to look into a couple conservation efforts in terms of saving electric costs.

      Also, Solar is not a good choice for folks with lower incomes if you were to purchase (based on federal tax liability level). If you adapt to their lease rates as you show and can be very sure your monthly costs stay below what you were paying. But leases must be transferrable to new homeowners should you move. Some home buyers may not want that, but it's hard to tell now. There may be a chance that conservation would be a better choice in such cases. A few of us believe that unless you can buy a Solar array with cash, you shouldn't consider solar unless you are in southern california with it's un-friendly tiered rate structure and could somehow take advantage of their lease rates.

      Let's look at purchase cost:
      sys cost $18,175 / 2.88 = $6.30/Watt - that is higher than most installers even in So. Cal. This is where you can see that their overall costs have room to come down. Your target is a system cost at below $5/Watt or $5.50 in So. Calif. Some folks have done systems for $3/Watt installed by an installer when doing much larger arrays and cheaper Chinese modules.
      PowerOne 3.6 x 2, 32 SolarWorld 255W mono

      Comment


      • #4
        My avergae usage is 790 kWh per month. My zipcode is 92585. Roof is tile. I was considering solar lease to avoid the inlation of SCE over the coming years. Cureently my monthly bill is about $140 on average. With SCE rates climbing I figure it would be good to lock down my higher tiers by going solar and avoiding those tiers in which I hit tier 3-4 during the summer.
        This is actually the second rep from solarcity to quote me, the first rep quoted this small system above and my most recent rep wanted me to go with a system size of 3.83 kW which would take me "off grid" for most of the year except for (Jun-Sept)
        Same financial terms apply to larger as far as 0% increase and ~$2,800 down. Thanks for any advice. My main concern is saving money over the long run and not dropping alot of cash now. We wont be selling this house so transfer is no concern.
        Heres specs of equipment per salesman as well:
        18 Yingll Energy 245 Watt Module
        Power-One Inverter
        Thanks for advice

        Originally posted by SoCalsolar View Post
        Do you need solar? or just want it? What I mean by this is is your electric bill high enough that your solar payment will be lower than your current electric bill? It looks like you are looking at about 12 240w no name panels. Is this due to size restraints on your roof? Are you SCE? LADWP? SDGE? A zip code your annual usage in Kw, along with roof type and age will give us more insight as to the quality of your quote. First impressions are it seems like there is room for downward movement in the price but at this size the soft costs are far greater than the cost of the equipment.

        Comment


        • #5
          The lease seems

          The monthly PPA seems like a last resort in your case as you don't have a huge bill if you can monetize the tax credit. Especially since you have no plans to leave the house. A purchase would allow you to expand at some point if you wanted, if you choose to go with the smaller system. That being said the purchase price seems a bit high. The prepaid looks good if you can get a hold of the remaining $5,000 equity line or other low interest option. Dealer should be able to offer some sort of low cost financing on a purchase. Based on the info you provided on this system putting $2500-$2800 down you ought to be able to get a monthly payment for the PPD around $50-60 a month(10-12 years) a purchase about $60-70(10-12 years) and the monthly PPA is what it is.

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          • #6
            Thanks for advice So cal. So besides purchasing, your first choice would be the smaller system prepay. If you were choosing between the PPA custom ~2k down would you choose the smaller or larger system. I know my best option is to buy but I dont want to fork out the money for the purchase right now. If the lease will save me money over 20 years vs no solar at all then thats my main concern. I know the estimates of 6.7% increase annually by SCE are unrealistic but even if its 3+% then I would save have a no annual increase solar lease?

            Comment


            • #7
              I know it's far-fetched, but the lease choices don't have a provision to guard against the local provider (ie. SCE or otherwise) dropping their ratepayer prices. The leases and PPAs have a consistent annual increase factored in and don't have any decrement should the POCO reverse direction for any reason (through new regulations changes or other benefits).
              PowerOne 3.6 x 2, 32 SolarWorld 255W mono

              Comment


              • #8
                Maybe too late

                Maybe I'm too late but I lost track of this one Sti. I wouldn't buy down the monthly option for $2,000. I wouldn't do it just to avoid SCE rate hikes. In your case if you can't or won't purchase or PPD PPA I would look to spend the 2k on energy efficient upgrades maybe insulation a few LED lights if the color of the lights meet your approval. I feel your bill is to low to benefit from a monthly PPA. Let us know where you are at in the process we are still interested.

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                • #9
                  Heres the Contract I am debating. I am leaning towards a smaller system though since it seems less risky and the price per kwh is the same. Thoughts, opinons?

                  https://www.dropbox.com/s/girq8d74bs...Agreement.docx

                  Mod note - please do not make duplicate posts - duplicates will be removed.
                  Last edited by russ; 03-29-2013, 11:02 AM. Reason: mod note

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    doesn't sound good to me you are going from an average cost of .17 KWH to .193 KWH You are saving in the summer and paying in the winter by shaving the top tier.
                    NABCEP certified Technical Sales Professional

                    [URL="http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?5334-Solar-Off-Grid-Battery-Design"]http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...Battery-Design[/URL]

                    [URL]http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html[/URL] (Voltage drop Calculator among others)

                    [URL="http://www.gaisma.com"]www.gaisma.com[/URL]

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                    • #11
                      Thanks for reply, thats a typo on the cover page, its supposed to be 17.7 cents per kwh always.
                      The things I like are that SCE will continue to increase especially tiers above1, where as this looks in my price since theres no escalation. They do all the maintenance and since I am paying for power if it doesnt perform I dont pay.
                      Things I dont like are that the price is above tier SCE so I am potentially paying more for low usage months. I was going to combat this by buying a smaller system.

                      My main concern is long term saving vs having no solar at all.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        For about $10 more a month

                        For about $10 more a month you should be able to buy this and and make payments for 10-12 years instead of 20 years. You will save a lot more money. I sent you a PM if you want more details. I wouldn't go with the 20 year lease doesn't seem worth it. Good luck

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                        • #13
                          Ok tell me more, I emailed you as well. thanks

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