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  • Home Efficiency

    I have a poorly insulated 4500sqft house in NY. My current energy costs are around $4500 for electric and $3000 for oil. My boiler and hvac units are shot and have to be replaced.

    This is what I'm doing in an effort to get rid of most of these energy costs.

    1) 18.36 kw solar panels
    2) new high efficiency bosch heat pumps
    3) new boiler with outside reset
    Also considering putting blown in insulation in attic. It's not feasible to insulate single pain windows as they are 30sqft at least. I don't want extra work and of using shutters .

    Am I hitting all the main points?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Cshama View Post
    I have a poorly insulated 4500sqft house in NY. My current energy costs are around $4500 for electric and $3000 for oil. My boiler and hvac units are shot and have to be replaced.

    This is what I'm doing in an effort to get rid of most of these energy costs.

    1) 18.36 kw solar panels
    2) new high efficiency bosch heat pumps
    3) new boiler with outside reset
    Also considering putting blown in insulation in attic. It's not feasible to insulate single pain windows as they are 30sqft at least. I don't want extra work and of using shutters .

    Am I hitting all the main points?
    Maybe just upgrade the boiler, heat pumps and insulation first to see what your new kWh usage is before you plunk down the money for a 18kW pv system.

    Based on a lot of peoples input, conservation and efficiency improvements are more cost effective then solar.

    I would rather see you spend your solar money on new information than to just jumping into the water with out knowing the depth.

    Comment


    • #3
      I've already jumped The solar is on its way. Whatever else happens I will need it. The electricity in my area is the most expensive in the country. .232 kw including delivery. And it's going up fast. Resulting in a 4 or 5 year payoff .


      Comment


      • #4
        Spend the money on an energy audit first. They should rank the improvements for payback. The best investment is "negawatts" of power you dont need to spend. Be careful in many areas anything over 10 KW is a commercial install and the utility can make it painful to do an interconnect.

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        • #5
          Coned seems to have okayed the system. Just waiting for planning permission. The reason why solar is a an easier choice here is the 40% higher then average electricity costs.

          How do I go about getting an energy audit?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Cshama View Post
            Coned seems to have okayed the system. Just waiting for planning permission. The reason why solar is a an easier choice here is the 40% higher then average electricity costs.

            How do I go about getting an energy audit?
            Some POCO's will be happy to come out and perform an energy audit on your home. They want to minimize the electrical wastage so they don't have to have extra power generation on stand by if they need to provide 100% of the customer usage.

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            • #7
              single pane 30 sqft windows? you might as well be burning cash IMHO. buy custom storm windows, custom polycarbonate is good as well. I lucked out and found some tripple pane windows on facebook market place. that is hands down without a doubt where all your energy losses are occuring.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Cshama View Post
                I have a poorly insulated 4500sqft house in NY. My current energy costs are around $4500 for electric and $3000 for oil. My boiler and hvac units are shot and have to be replaced.

                This is what I'm doing in an effort to get rid of most of these energy costs.

                1) 18.36 kw solar panels
                2) new high efficiency bosch heat pumps
                3) new boiler with outside reset
                Also considering putting blown in insulation in attic. It's not feasible to insulate single pain windows as they are 30sqft at least. I don't want extra work and of using shutters .

                Am I hitting all the main points?
                Your electricity is not the most expensive in the U.S. Most of CA has an average per kWh cost approaching something like $0.30 or more.

                As for your question:

                You missed the easiest and what is usually the most cost effective measure: Sealing, weather stripping and tightening up the building envelope.

                Otherwise, from an economic standpoint your list is pretty much backwards if cost effectiveness is one of your priorities.

                Most bang for the buck generally starts by doing the most cost effective (and also probably less expensive) stuff first. That usually means tightening up the building envelope with sealing and weather stripping to reduce infiltration first, followed by insulation inspection/updates/additions, followed by resizing and implementing the boiler and heat pump upgrades which may well also be smaller (read less $$) because of the prior conservation efforts and improvements.

                PV is usually the last thing done as it's usually the most costly chunk of improvement, and in spite of what you hear from the solar peddlers, usually less cost effective than most other energy reduction measures - except new windows, which save energy (but not as much as you're led to believe), but are also pretty expensive. Storm widows may be less costly. Get new windows for aesthetics, but new windows for cost effective energy savings alone needs careful consideration.

                After all the other energy reduction measures(except maybe windows) PV is usually one of, if not the last thing done. Logic: You sized your PV based on pre-conservation usage. Now, after the conservation measures, That PV that met the old usage will be oversized because the usage is now less. In effect, you left money on the table.

                If it was me (and it sure ain't), I'd start with an energy audit. When I lived in NYS, energy audits were mandated to be offered by utilities for no cost. I expect that's stilll the case. Get one. But before that download a free PDF, or spring for an update hardcopy of "Solar Power Your Home for Dummies" for ~ $25 at bookstores/Amazon. Read the chapter on conservation a couple of times. The audit will make more sense that way.

                While you may feel good about pulling the trigger, I'd have waited on the PV until after you had an energy audit and implemented all the conservation measures the audit recommends.

                Comment


                • #9
                  1. Windows. Casement style. Those beat double hung every day of the week. If you have double hung windows, physical outside storm window makes a difference.
                  2) For heating and cooling, if you have multiple floors, I am a proponent of zoning.
                  3) Not sure where you are located, but Geothermal can make sense.

                  When is your highest electrical use? If its in summer. planting trees in the right place, could help reduce your cooling needs.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cshama View Post
                    I've already jumped The solar is on its way. Whatever else happens I will need it. The electricity in my area is the most expensive in the country. .232 kw including delivery. And it's going up fast. Resulting in a 4 or 5 year payoff . ​
                    I don't think you are in either Hawaii or California, which have VA beat by a long shot


                    Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

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                    • #11
                      Coned in NY give them a good run for their money. .232 a kw

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cshama View Post
                        Coned in NY give them a good run for their money. .232 a kw
                        Actually most of New England has very high electric rates depending on which POCO you are with.

                        Still based on my research HI has the highest electric rate in the US as well as having the most restrictions concerning Net metering. But even at $0.232/kWh is a lot higher than my $0.09/kWh down here in Florida.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Can you clarify a couple of things?

                          Heat pump is used for heating and cooling, boiler is used for hot water?

                          You do or don't have access to natural gas?

                          Thanks

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by oregon_phil View Post
                            Can you clarify a couple of things?

                            Heat pump is used for heating and cooling, boiler is used for hot water?

                            You do or don't have access to natural gas?

                            Thanks
                            3,000 gal./yr. is probably for more than DHW. Oil makes up a larger %age of use in the NE + New England than other parts of the country.

                            Heat pump may be for A/C only, or A/C + adjunct to fossil fuel boiler.

                            I'd guess that Nat. gas is either not available or if available not used. If you're using oil, it is usually because CH4 is not available.

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