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  • Solar panel advice

    Hello

    I am in the market looking to get solar panels and so far I have received few quotes. Sunpro seems to be the best right now. With 25 years warranty in labor panels and production. I am in California and I am quoted 25 panels for $22,000 lg335-v5. My average month consumption is 900kw. I play for real money on the best online casinos that I found here <link removed> and hope to spend a lot of money for new panels.

    Does anyone here have experience with sunpro? What are your cons and pros with them? Should I go solar? Is it worth it ? What all should I be looking out for?

    Thank you.

    Moderator note: Please do not post links to sites unrelated to solar. I suspect that was your only reason for joining the site and posting here, but I'll leave this thread alone in case I'm wrong, and because it generated a useful discussion.
    Last edited by sdold; 12-17-2020, 02:19 PM. Reason: Link removed

  • #2
    Welcome to the forum and the complex world of solar.

    Should you go solar? If you're asking people on this forum, of course we'll say yes.

    LG is a major supplier of panels with a good reputation. We have heard many stories about companies pushing back on warranty claims. People like you and me have no clout with a huge corporation like LG, so don't put too much stake in warranty.

    By a very rough handwaving calculation, they are selling you very roughly $9,000 worth of hardware plus installation, working with the local city, filing papers with the power company, and support. Did I say that this is a rough guess? If wouldn't hurt to get a second quote, but it won't be MUCH different.

    If you want to make some educated judgments on what your array will produce, there is a web tool called PVWATTS that is easy to use, surprisingly accurate, and very helpful. It will allow you to estimate how much energy you'll get every month from 25 335 watt panels, in your exact location, exactly as you will have them installed. It also has good help screens. Perhaps Sunpro has already done a calculation with PVWATTS or their own tool and can give you a detailed printout. If not, I strongly encourage you to do it yourself. Even if they do give you a report, it couldn't hurt to make your own calculations to see if they are being straight with you. Then you can use your current electric rate to calculate the payback. Simply google PVWATTS and it will come up as the first link.

    There are other differences in solar installation other than the number of panels and watts. Some use better inverters than others. It might be worthwhile to find out which inverter or inverters they will use, whether they will give you full access to inverter monitoring, and what they will provide for after-sale service.

    Sorry, I don't know that dealer. I'm in a different part of the country.

    I hope this helps. Keep asking questions here. There are many great people with experience and knowledge about solar. There's also me.
    7kW Roof PV, APsystems QS1 micros, Nissan Leaf EV

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Falongrk View Post
      Hello

      I am in the market looking to get solar panels and so far I have received few quotes. Sunpro seems to be the best right now. With 25 years warranty in labor panels and production. I am in California and I am quoted 25 panels for $22,000 lg335-v5. My average month consumption is 900kw

      Does anyone here have experience with sunpro? What are your cons and pros with them? Should I go solar? Is it worth it ? What all should I be looking out for?

      Thank you.
      Should you go solar ? Depends on your goals. The reality is for most folks the biggest if not sole goal is a lower electric bill. I guess I'm one of the folks who would say "maybe". It depends on your perception of value to you with the accuracy of that perception depending largely on your knowledge of the subject.

      I've no info on Sunpro, but I'd suggest there are still good PV vendors out there.

      I do note that their website shows no Sunpro vendors in CA. What's your zip ?

      If it was me, and it was, 7 years ago, I'd stay with local, established vendors who are also experienced electrical contractors with a history and a good reputation. A good vendor is worth a slight premium.

      I would caution or suggest that buying PV on low buck alone from Larry with a ladder type vendors is the errand of a fool. A few extra bucks and time spent on vendor evaluation will pay big dividends. Spend as much time evaluating vendors as you would equipment and system configuration. You won't regret it.

      Don't buy or commit to anything until you get more information about PV, its potential and limitations and how it works. It's only complicated if you're ignorant of what's required and how residential PV is configured, and it's only as complex as vendors would like you to think.

      As for your question of what should you be looking for: Put a big dent in your solar ignorance and download a free but slightly dated but still useful pdf version of "Solar Power Your Home for Dummies". Or, buy an updated soft cover version for ~ $ 25 at bookstores or Amazon. It'll begin your education, help you ask vendors questions you already know the answers to and help you get a better, more fit for purpose system.

      As Bob-n writes, get familiar w/ PVWatts, but I'd add - read ALL the help screens a couple of times before you make any runs, and don't make any runs until you've read the dummies book. No offense intended but I suspect that if not mitigated, your lack of information and solar PV subject knowledge will not help avoid getting a less than optimal system.

      Pay a lot of initial attention to the chapters about conservation. Conservation, or not using energy, is way more cost effective than generating more of it with PV.

      Also, before you commit to PV, and if you're planning a roof mount as is common, get your roof inspected and serviced. Call it cheap insurance. PV systems last a long time. Chasing leaks on a plain roof is bad enough. Chasing one under an array is close to impossible. After install, the first good rain with no leaks will be your payback.

      In most of CA, a reasonably oriented solar array, that is, one with not much shade, facing generally south and tilted to the horizontal at roughly a 20-30 degree angle with the horizontal will generate something like ~ 1,400 - 1,600 kWh/yr. per installed STC kW.

      A 25 ea. 335 STC W panel system will probably generate something like (1,500 kWh/yr. per installed STC) * (25*335 STC W/1,000W/kW) = ~ 12,000-13,000 kWh/yr.

      You use ~ 10,000 - 11,000 kWh/yr. Who did the array sizing - You or the vendor ? Do future plans involve increasing your use ? Are you aware of the oversizing ? Do your future plans include increased usage from such things as increased family size or an EV? Just know what the financial impact of potential oversizing (or undersizing) will be.

      Get the dummies book and PVWatts under your belt and do some preliminary sizing. Then come back here and ask questions to fill in any knowledge gaps your self education creates.

      None of this is rocket science, but it is a bit more complicated than buying, say, a garage door opener. The more self education you do, the more fit for purpose and cost effective will any system be.

      Welcome to the neighborhood and the forum of few(er) illusions.

      Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest,
      Last edited by J.P.M.; 11-17-2020, 07:44 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        You did not mention where in California you live, but here in the Bay Area, typical price is over $3 per watt installed. They are offering you ~$2.63, so the price looks good to me. California is one of the most expensive places in the country to install solar. Why? California. nuff said.

        As for the panels, I have 16x LG335v-5, so same panels. I had a 20% failure rate (3 of 16 died in first year) on my install, so warranty is VERY important. LG must have had some serious issues either in manufacturing or shipping. But they did agree all 3 were bad and replaced them. It took about 6 months though to go through their crazy process, so my system was underproducing that whole time. So be aware of that. I personally would stay away from LG panels.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by blueman2 View Post
          . I had a 20% failure rate (3 of 16 died in first year) on my install, so warranty is VERY important. LG must have had some serious issues either in manufacturing or shipping.
          Ouch.
          For myself, I bought 32 of LG 280W panels when I did my install a few years ago.
          I've had no failures.

          When I bought my 280W panels, they were probably about where the 335's are now as far as the knee in the pricing curve goes.
          At higher wattages, the price per watt went up quickly.
          And I think (but have no evidence) that as you climb that curve you have a higher risk of failure along with the higher price per watt. They're closer to the edge of the performance envelope of what's being produced. And the higher risk of failure in the field also contributes to the higher price.

          Falongrk: I see 2 "LG335-v5" modules. The LG 335N1K-V5 and the 335N1C-V5. The N1K are all-black, the N1C have a white backsheet. It does matter aesthetically, so if you have a preference for one, make sure you have that specified in the contract.
          I was going to suggest a company from Santa Cruz if you were in the bay area. But I looked them up and they've closed (Looks like the owner retired)

          Comment


          • #6
            a lot of solar companies are not around 25 years latter so the warranty is basically worthless IMHO.

            Comment


            • #7
              You'd like to think that some support is available if there is an early life failure, however.
              7kW Roof PV, APsystems QS1 micros, Nissan Leaf EV

              Comment


              • #8
                IMO those solar panel warranties are not worth the paper they are written on. Buy the best Tier 1 panels for the lowest cost and use the savings to buy 2 or three spare panels. If one does go bad you can replace it immediately without waiting or hassling for six months. Added benefit is that the replacement panel will match all the others.....that's not a given with warranty replacement panels.



                Comment


                • #9
                  Dan,
                  I agree completely. Keep in mind that some of us are not prepared to climb on the roof to replace a panel or even debug a problem. Having a dealer who can debug an issue and replace the bad part under warranty is valuable to some.
                  7kW Roof PV, APsystems QS1 micros, Nissan Leaf EV

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I've though about buying a spare solar panel, but never have! It totally makes sense though. I've installed 3 systems in the last 10 years and one can't get duplicate exact same panels after a few years , much less after 10 years. I just size my strings so that if one panel fails it still has enough voltage to work.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If a panel does go bad say 20 years from now what solar company is going to have the same model panel in stock to replace it with?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        We know that technology will be more advanced in 20 years. In 20 years, it could be that you want to replace the whole array. That's a long ways off.

                        I have a friend that replaced his whole array after 8 years. He did both installs himself, so labor was free. For his first install, his break even time was under 3 years. Admittedly, he loves to tinker.

                        Here's one other thought. Estimates are to expect 10% degradation after 20 years, but it could be more or less. If you have 20 panels and one goes bad after 20 years, you may simply decide to live with it and accept that extra 5% loss rather than spend money repairing old technology.

                        Compare these scenarios:

                        1) Spend $20K now. For 20 years, get expected production. After 20 years, one panel dies and production drops 5%.
                        2) Spend $20.4K now. For 20 years, get expected production and store two spare panels. After 20 years, one panel dies. You hire someone to replaced it from your spares. It's also possible that an inverter dies, that a few panels die, that you move away, or any number of other things.

                        Which would you choose?
                        7kW Roof PV, APsystems QS1 micros, Nissan Leaf EV

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          After 20 years your roof does not look like a patchwork quilt and you can sell it for $20.4k more.........

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                          • #14
                            I don't know about Sunpro. As far as I know, ECO-WORTHY comes with a 25-year transferable output warranty. It is also rated to have a five-year and 95% efficiency
                            Last edited by AndrewCoates; 12-26-2020, 07:59 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by AndrewCoates View Post
                              I don't know about Sunpro. As far as I know, ECO-WORTHY comes with a 25-year transferable output warranty. It is also rated to have a five-year and 95% efficiency
                              I think you are missing the point....in five years ECO-WORTHY panels will either be obsolete or out of business. Replacing panels with "like kind" panels that do not match will not only devalue your house but also your neighbors.

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