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  • mppt charge controller - ZLPOWER ??

    I would like to know if anyone bought one of these controllers"Brand Name ZLPOWER " and the link is
    http://zlpower.en.alibaba.com/produc...uctdetail.html
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    Could someone try to explain how they say it is a mppt but uses ""Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) topol""
    Would it still turn the Higher volts into amp's.?
    I know it's made over seas, Please don't give me all the stuff about buy morring star and Bluesky, etc. Im just asking a question and have only so much money to buy things. Now if you have the extra money and will give it to me, then I'll buy American.
    TKS for your input.
    John

  • #2
    Simple it is false advertising. You cannot have a PWM MPPT CC
    MSEE, PE

    Comment


    • #3
      mppt

      Originally posted by Sunking View Post
      Simple it is false advertising. You cannot have a PWM MPPT CC
      sunking.
      I found this inside picture of this solar controller and it is a or has the features of a mppt. Look at the large coils. So it must be a mppt.
      here is the link for the pic. look at image 2.
      ZLPOWER SL-40A
      .
      http://www.diytrade.com/china/4/prod...apability.html

      Comment


      • #4
        Conntaxman the issue is the conflict in terms.

        PWM = Pulse Width Modulated. A PWM controller in laymen terms is nothing more than a switch and has 2 states closed (on) or open (off). The switch operates anywhere from 10 to 60 Khz and the duty cycle (on-off pulse width) modulates between 0 to 100%. At 100% duty cycle the switch is closed 100% and the solar panel is connected directly to the battery lowering the voltage of the panel to the battery voltage and operates below Voltage at maximum power. The key point to a PWM controller is the input current = output current and the input voltage must be equal greater than the output voltage.

        A MPPT controller is a completely different animal as it is a true DC to DC switch mode or buck/boost voltage converter. Input current does not equal output current, and input voltage can be either be higher or lower than the output voltage.
        MSEE, PE

        Comment


        • #5
          Open up a good PWM charge controller, like a trace c-40, has some chips, and coils too.

          MPPT needs a micro-processor, and NVRAM and I don't see a CPU in the photo shown. Buyer beware. Look on amazon for product reviews, and assume half are company shills.
          spreadsheet based voltage drop calculator:
          http://www.solar-guppy.com/download/...calculator.zip
          http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...oss-calculator

          http://www.mike-burgess.org/PVinfo_2.html

          solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
          gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,
          battery lugs http://tinyurl.com/LMR-BigLug
          Setting up batteries http://tinyurl.com/LMR-NiFe

          gear :
          Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||

          || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||

          || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi John,
            From reading user manual & other information These charge controllers definitely appear to be genuine MPPT. I ordered some & am waiting for delivery. Confirm the temperature sensor is included as it is stated as an option in the manual, it would operate without the sensor. (just to be sure)
            There is an isolated RS232 port on the side of these for data logging. But I am having some trouble getting any detail on the com port & data structure.


            >>"Simple it is false advertising. You cannot have a PWM MPPT CC"

            I suspect the manufacturer is meaning that they use PWM to control the battery charging after the MPPT stage of their converter. The 3 large electrolytic caps I would assume to be the output bus from the MPPT, then PWM to charge the battery.

            I intend to do some testing when I get my SL-40A's so I will let know the results & confirm other detail.

            Toni
            Last edited by tonigau; 05-20-2011, 06:32 PM. Reason: Correction, relavence

            Comment


            • #7
              The simple test, is to feed it a higher DC voltage, say 24V @ 3A, and measure what the amps it's charging the 12V system at.
              24V @ 3A = 72w - 5% = 68W @ 14V = 4.8A going into the batteries. That's MPPT

              $80 Wsle @ 40A not believable . Along with 97% efficient ?
              Last edited by Mike90250; 05-20-2011, 06:02 PM.
              spreadsheet based voltage drop calculator:
              http://www.solar-guppy.com/download/...calculator.zip
              http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...oss-calculator

              http://www.mike-burgess.org/PVinfo_2.html

              solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
              gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,
              battery lugs http://tinyurl.com/LMR-BigLug
              Setting up batteries http://tinyurl.com/LMR-NiFe

              gear :
              Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||

              || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||

              || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Mike,
                not trying to sound too disagreeable, but your test would prove "not PWM" rather than "is MPPT" (which is what OP was asking so will do this as a preliminary test)

                A dc-dc converter 24V in 12V out would give the same result, but not track the MPP of a solar panel(s).



                Toni

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well, true enough, but the innards just dont look like there is enough brains to do the MPPT, coils can be noise supression for PWM, they don't prove MPPT.
                  spreadsheet based voltage drop calculator:
                  http://www.solar-guppy.com/download/...calculator.zip
                  http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...oss-calculator

                  http://www.mike-burgess.org/PVinfo_2.html

                  solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                  gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,
                  battery lugs http://tinyurl.com/LMR-BigLug
                  Setting up batteries http://tinyurl.com/LMR-NiFe

                  gear :
                  Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||

                  || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||

                  || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tonigau View Post
                    A dc-dc converter 24V in 12V out would give the same result, but not track the MPP of a solar panel(s).
                    True but no PWM controller can do that, only a MMPT controller can, so the test is valid, not conclusive, but valid. As i have said a thousand times with a PWM controller Current Input = or less than Current Output.

                    Price and country of origin is enough to cast serious doubts and best avoided.
                    MSEE, PE

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      mppt /algorithm

                      I have been reading and reading about all the makes made here in the usa, and most are Also using about the same sys. and all use "algorithm" sys. They use both pwm AND mppt in the controllers.
                      here are the spec. for the one I bought.And it also uses both sys.
                      I also know that some people say a product is no good if it dosent cost alot of money, and Many say that if its made in china or anywere out side the usa it is no good. SO go look at your TV,RADIO, COMPUTER'S and most other stuff, Its all made in china, or if it is made here, the Parts INSIDE and made in china.
                      Im just trying to save a dollar, because Im retired and on s.s.Disability.
                      I'll test this when I get it, and im going to say it will do what it clams to be. mppt
                      But thanks for all the info, and come backs.
                      John

                      .
                      Solar System-MPPT Solar charge controller 12V/24V 40A
                      Product Features

                      1.High converting efficiency higher than 97%for minimizing energy loss
                      2.Build-in MPPT tracker for optimizing the power transformation
                      3.Reversed current protection for preventing equipment damage
                      4.Automatic battery temperature compensation for long-term reliability
                      5.Capable of selecting different charging mode for various type of batteries
                      6.Capable of connecting additional DC load for wider applications
                      7.Three stage charge control system(bulk,absorption, and float mode)with temperaturecompensation
                      8.LED indicators display charge status in real time
                      9.Pulse width modulation(PWM)topology combined with a multi-stage charge control algorithm leads to superior charging and enhanced batteryperformance

                      Product performance

                      MODEL SL-40A
                      Rated Voltage 12/24VDC
                      Rated charge current 40A
                      Load current 15A
                      Input voltage rang 15-55VDC
                      Max.PV open circuit
                      array voltage 55VD
                      Typical idle consumption <10mA
                      Overload protection
                      (DC load) 2.0*inom>5s 1.5*inom>20s
                      1.25*inom temperature controlled
                      Bulk charge14.6V (default)29.2V (default)
                      Floating charge 13.4V (default)26.8V (default)
                      Equalization charge14.0V (default)28.0V (default)
                      Over charge disconnection 14.8V 29.6V
                      Over charge recovery 13.6V27.2V
                      Over discharge disconnection 10.8V(default)21.6V(default)
                      Over discharge reconnection 12.3V24.6V
                      Temperature compensation -13.2mv/C-26.4mv/C
                      Lead acid battery setting Adjustable
                      Nicad battery setting Adjustable

                      Load control mode
                      1. Low Voltage Reconnect (LVR): Adjustable
                      2. Low Voltage Disconnect (LVR): Automatic Disconnection
                      3.Reconnection:Includes warning flash before disconnect and reconnect
                      Low voltage reconnect 12.0-14.0Vdc24.0-28.0Vdc
                      Low voltage disconnect 10.5-12.5Vdc21.0-25.0Vdc
                      Ambient temperature 0-40C (full load) 40-0C (de-rating)
                      AltitudeOperating 5000m,Non-operating 16000m
                      Protection class IP21
                      Battery temperature sensor BTS optional remote batter temperature
                      sensor for increased charging precision

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Wow - it does Ni-Cad too! I didn't spot that before.

                        I can't say it isn't what it claims to be, and if it only cost's you $100 to try out, and if it lasts you a year, you will have gotten your $ worth.

                        You have to promise to report back as to how it works out!

                        (note to self - locate a smiley of eating my hat)
                        spreadsheet based voltage drop calculator:
                        http://www.solar-guppy.com/download/...calculator.zip
                        http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...oss-calculator

                        http://www.mike-burgess.org/PVinfo_2.html

                        solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                        gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,
                        battery lugs http://tinyurl.com/LMR-BigLug
                        Setting up batteries http://tinyurl.com/LMR-NiFe

                        gear :
                        Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||

                        || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||

                        || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          mppt////or ?

                          Originally posted by Sunking View Post
                          True but no PWM controller can do that, only a MMPT controller can, so the test is valid, not conclusive, but valid. As i have said a thousand times with a PWM controller Current Input = or less than Current Output.

                          Price and country of origin is enough to cast serious doubts and best avoided.
                          sunking. What make of car do you have ?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by conntaxman View Post
                            sunking. What make of car do you have ?
                            I have a few. Lexus, BMW, Honda, and a Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel Pick Up in which 2 of them are used for work. The Honda Accord is my everyday vehicle for personal use, and the BMW is the wife's car.

                            One good clue in the controller spec is the maximum input Voc voltage of 55 volts, which means maximum Vmp of around 40 volts which is exactly what you would want for a 24 volt PWM. MPPT input voltages are usually above 100 volts, and the high quality ones 150. New ones coming out are rated 600 Voc @ 80 amps battery charge current.

                            The one spec I cannot see is what is the maximum solar panel power input at 12 and 24 volt battery is? That will differently tell you if it is MPPT or PWM.
                            MSEE, PE

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              mppt /algorithm

                              Originally posted by tonigau View Post
                              Hi John,
                              From reading user manual & other information These charge controllers definitely appear to be genuine MPPT. I ordered some & am waiting for delivery. Confirm the temperature sensor is included as it is stated as an option in the manual, it would operate without the sensor. (just to be sure)
                              There is an isolated RS232 port on the side of these for data logging. But I am having some trouble getting any detail on the com port & data structure.


                              >>"Simple it is false advertising. You cannot have a PWM MPPT CC"

                              I suspect the manufacturer is meaning that they use PWM to control the battery charging after the MPPT stage of their converter. The 3 large electrolytic caps I would assume to be the output bus from the MPPT, then PWM to charge the battery.

                              I intend to do some testing when I get my SL-40A's so I will let know the results & confirm other detail.

                              Toni
                              ............................
                              Hello tonigau. when did you order you sl40? I just ordered it 5/19/2011thursday.I should be getting it in about next week. Did you talk to the girl that handles these?I did, and also I just sent them another email to see if I could talk to an enginer about them. But from what I have been reading and a couple other people said that it is a mppt controller.If you read about the ones made here,Morringstar,bluesky,outback, and others, you will see that they use pwm in theirs also.And if you look up pwm / mppt ,you will see that the NEWER controllers do use a type of pwm system, I guess that is after it goes through the mppt part and then to charge the battery.
                              Did you see that you can hook this up to a computer also and get more data.
                              Did you buy it after I showed the pic.
                              TKS.
                              john

                              Comment

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