Interesting.... ATS product, at meter, for Generator input to Main panel

[NCmountainsOffgrid]

interesting.... I just found this link to a 'generator input' box for the home's Main panel - provided by our local electrical provider.... this is a great tool to easily allow your generator's output to power your Main electrical box, versus running extension cords, or powering only a sub-panel...

https://www.brmemc.com/PDFs/Informat...on%20Sheet.pdf

I may inquire about the installation pricing of this for our cabin... and while my 30amp generator certainly won't run everything we might 'normally' use, during a power outage, it would allow me to simply trip the breakers of items I don't want to use during that time - water heater, heaters, oven/stove, dryer, etc.

This unit apparently 'senses' the presence of generator power, and has an internal relay, or automatic transfer switch, to keep the grid separated.
My only question would be 'how' would you then know when the grid power is restored - maybe the Meter would give a clue?

[SunEagle]

interesting.... I just found this link to a 'generator input' box for the home's Main panel - provided by our local electrical provider.... this is a great tool to easily allow your generator's output to power your Main electrical box, versus running extension cords, or powering only a sub-panel...

https://www.brmemc.com/PDFs/Informat...on%20Sheet.pdf

I may inquire about the installation pricing of this for our cabin... and while my 30amp generator certainly won't run everything we might 'normally' use, during a power outage, it would allow me to simply trip the breakers of items I don't want to use during that time - water heater, heaters, oven/stove, dryer, etc.

This unit apparently 'senses' the presence of generator power, and has an internal relay, or automatic transfer switch, to keep the grid separated.
My only question would be 'how' would you then know when the grid power is restored - maybe the Meter would give a clue?

Nice piece of equipment but I would think there would be some type of coordination between the "installer" and your POCO since the meter is being removed.

[NCmountainsOffgrid]

yes, the install is required by the utility, not the homeowner....here's what I received back from the utility provider... and while not 'cheap', I suppose it's a lower cost than possibly having to arrange for and install a sub-panel, cutoff, etc with a normal setup...

"The Generlink itself is $851.80 and we charge and installation fee of $175 bringing the total to $1026.80. The Generlink comes with a 20ft cord, longer sizes may be purchased at an additional cost."

[JSchnee21]

That is an interesting product. Alternatively, you could do a whole panel manual transfer switch in between the service feed and the indoor load center. Generac makes two different models with a 30amp or 50amp input for the generator and a 200amp main breaker. The cost is nearly identical, so you might as well get the 50amp since you generator output is breakered separately anyway.

$450
(www).electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Generac-6335/p9479.html
(www).electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Generac-6382/p9478.html

$100
There's a male twistlock on the bottom for your generator output cordset. You supply the cord.

Add two pilot lights to the panel -- one for the PoCo feed (before the breaker) and one for the generator feed. This way you can see what is live. If you get fancy, you could put a push button to remote start your generator.

$500
BUT -- not only will installation likely be more (probably $500 I would guess).

But you will also need an Autotransformer to balance your house load phases across the split phase output of your genny.

$500-800
(www).victronenergy.com/autotransformers/autotransformers
(www).outbackpower.com/products/integration-products/auto-transformer

So, all together, you're looking at roughly $1500-2000 which is why I haven't convinced myself that I "need" one yet. And because I already have like $500 worth of heavy duty extension cords.

But extension cords sure are a pain in the arse.

[NCmountainsOffgrid]

agreed, and my generator is only 120v output, so it

[JSchnee21]

We bought our generator in the midst of hurricane Sandy. We were without power for 10 days (mainly due to finger pointing between the PoCo and the tree removal company). I was expensive, but has nice clean power and runs like a top (generac xp6500e -- now discontinued). The XP series has very clean power with low harmonic distortion. You can switch it between 120V and 120/240V. It can put out roughly ~27 amps per phase in split phase mode or 48amps in 120V mode. The GP series (sold at Lowes, etc.) is crap.

On thing I didn't realize is how sensitive the generator (all generators) are to split phase load imbalances when running in 120/240V mode. This is because the generator senses the highest loaded leg and will adjust RPM, voltage, etc. to compensate. Unfortunately this means that the lightly loaded leg will often be over voltage while the main leg is generally under voltage.

With extension cords and an induction ammeter you can measure these loads and, fairly easily, move equipment around between the phases to balance the load. Or, better yet, if you have no 240V loads, run in 120V only mode in which both windings are wired in parallel.

But, when connecting to your home's load center you have to run in split phase mode, and you cannot easily move things between phases (as it depends on the location of the branch circuit breaker in the load center). You could have the panel re-balanced by an electrician, but the balance will change depending on what equipment is in use. So an auto transformer becomes more and more necessary.

While gas was in short supply and difficult to drive to. It strikes me now that if I only had an electric car I would be out of luck. Even with a fairly large gasoline generator I would not have been able to charge it. You'd need a10kW or 20kW stationary generator to charge a model 3, bolt, or similar.

[NCmountainsOffgrid]

caught this 240v model at the big box store...

[ButchDeal]

agreed, and my generator is only 120v output, so it

your cheapest solution is likely to stick with all 120V. What load do you have that is 240V? if none or just one like a well pump, then use an auto-transformer for the one load and keep the inverter & generator at 120V. likely cheaper that way.

[SunEagle]

caught this 240v model at the big box store...

I just purchased a Duromax 12kw dual fuel (propane & gasoline) generator for about $1200 through Amazon. It will provide 120/240V output and already has a 240v 50amp receptacle built in so that makes it easier for me to backfeed my main panel through my 50amp RV plug. While I first have to disconnect from the grid and then manually turn off some of my 240v loads it should provide me with enough power for lights, fans, refrigerator, well pump and computers during an outage. So far I have not had to use it yet but at least I am not prepared.

[bcroe]

I just purchased a Duromax 12kw dual fuel (propane & gasoline) generator for about $1200 through Amazon.

What is the propane arrangement? I checked my tanks, apparently they can be tapped for liquid, but are
currently doing only vapor. Bruce Roe

[SunEagle]

What is the propane arrangement? I checked my tanks, apparently they can be tapped for liquid, but are
currently doing only vapor. Bruce Roe

I can use bottled propane or pipe it from my RV tank. For gasoline it has a 10 gallon tank on top. There is a selector for either fuel type which needs to be adjusted before starting it up.

The generator states it will provide 50% load (~6kw) for 8 hours on a 20lb tank.

[bcroe]

I can use bottled propane or pipe it from my RV tank. For gasoline it has a 10 gallon tank on top. There
is a selector for either fuel type which needs to be adjusted before starting it up.

The generator states it will provide 50% load (~6kw) for 8 hours on a 20lb tank.

I suppose, you use the propane tank upright for vapor? Or it could be turned upside down for liquid?
Propane is already on site here, pretty much as heating backup these days. Wish I could run the
generator and tractor on alternate propane. Bruce Roe

[J.P.M.]

I can use bottled propane or pipe it from my RV tank. For gasoline it has a 10 gallon tank on top. There is a selector for either fuel type which needs to be adjusted before starting it up.

The generator states it will provide 50% load (~6kw) for 8 hours on a 20lb tank.

Using the lower heating value of propane of 19,927 BTU/lbm:

20 lbm of propane*19,927BTU/lbm = 398,540 BTU.
6kW * 8 hrs. = 48 kWh.
1 kWh = 3,412 BTU.
48 kWh = 3,412 BTU*48 = 163,776 BTU

--->>> 163,776/398,540 = 0.41.

Given the energy value of the fuel input, seems kind of a high efficiency, but without a meter on the output and a weight scale, kind of hard to verify.

[frankge]

I installed an interconnect with a 30amp breaker with an outlet outside, spent about $125.00

[SunEagle]

Using the lower heating value of propane of 19,927 BTU/lbm:

20 lbm of propane*19,927BTU/lbm = 398,540 BTU.
6kW * 8 hrs. = 48 kWh.
1 kWh = 3,412 BTU.
48 kWh = 3,412 BTU*48 = 163,776 BTU

--->>> 163,776/398,540 = 0.41.

Given the energy value of the fuel input, seems kind of a high efficiency, but without a meter on the output and a weight scale, kind of hard to verify.

I haven't had a chance to test the promised output yet. They do mention that there is a better output efficiency using gasoline but again it may all be just fancy advertising and not close to being true.