Solar Shingles, where to start?

[johnshenry]

I am realizing that my 20 year old roof needs replacing and was always intrigued by the idea of Solar Shingles. Looks like Tesla's have been installed on a limited basis at this point but a wait list is still in use. PV panels I don't care for the look of but wouldn't completely rule them out.

I am in MA, run an average of $250/mo in electric, have a Southwest facing roof plane that is 40'x25' or so, on a 30 degree slope with no tree shading. Everything that I look at says that is plenty. 3700s.f. home with must my wife and I living here now.

Suggestions on how/where to start? I see tons of sites/clickbait on "Get Solar Quote" but am always leery as to whether I am really getting offered the best deal/tech options. So I figured I'd ask here. Also, comments on the viability/availability of solar shingles???

Thanks in advance....

JH

[J.P.M.]

Do as you please, but solar shingles are an idea that's not ready for prime time. It's still a sucker bet.

[discodanman45]

I saw articles from when Elon was hyping the panels that is would cost about $20 per square foot on the roof. At that price it would be a decent deal. However, from the installs I heard about and the size of your house it would be well over $100,000. In 10 or 20 years the technology may be ready for this, but right now it is for rich people to have their house as a shrine for Musk.

[J.P.M.]

I am realizing that my 20 year old roof needs replacing and was always intrigued by the idea of Solar Shingles. Looks like Tesla's have been installed on a limited basis at this point but a wait list is still in use. PV panels I don't care for the look of but wouldn't completely rule them out.

I am in MA, run an average of $250/mo in electric, have a Southwest facing roof plane that is 40'x25' or so, on a 30 degree slope with no tree shading. Everything that I look at says that is plenty. 3700s.f. home with must my wife and I living here now.

Suggestions on how/where to start? I see tons of sites/clickbait on "Get Solar Quote" but am always leery as to whether I am really getting offered the best deal/tech options. So I figured I'd ask here. Also, comments on the viability/availability of solar shingles???

Thanks in advance....

JH

I snoop/lurk around on the Arizona Wind and Sun forum every so often. Not a plug or endorsement, but there is currently running thread over there :" Tesla Solar Roof tiles" that does a pretty good job of a truth to B.S. expose' of Musk and his solar shingles. You might consider checking it out.

FWIW, I really liked the post that included a quote from the NY Post relating to Musk and his cons. Also, Peakbaggger had a nice post with several thoughtful points about snow/cold considerations for PV roof tiles.

One other thing: If you have an insulated attic or roof deck, like most everyone with an ounce of brains who still lives in a cold climate has, or should have, how would you remove and keep all the snow off the shingles ?

[JSchnee21]

Go to energy sage dot com and start looking for local installers with good reviews and long (~10yrs) time in the business. Get your roof replaced as part of the site prep for your convention solar PV system and claim it as part of the system when applying for your federal tax rebate (30%). Definitely pass on solar shingles for the forseeable future. Get your electric bill and see how many kWh you use per year. Then go to a site like pvwatts.nrel.gov to estimate productivity of different site arrays in your area. Or use the SolarEdge site designer tool. If it were me, I'd skip the Micros and go straight to SolarEdge. But if you have no shade, a string inverter could be fine as well. Though, given MA's propensity for snow, I'd prefer SolarEdge. Then look for a mid range to higher end panel from Trina, Hanwha, Jinko, LG, Panasonic, or others. All in you'll be in the $2.75-3.00 per Watt DC STC. But in addition to saving on your electric bill. MA still has a good SREC program, I believe. www.srectrade.com/srec_markets/massachusetts

[peakbagger]

Last thing I knew, the only way to get a Tesla Solar Roof is directly through Tesla and reportedly Tesla was using is as bait and switch to convince folks to lease overpriced conventional solar. Personally, I would spend the difference between a good roof install and the premium for Tesla system on a conventional system. I do agree that Tesla got one thing right and that's breaking up the roof system into a couple of separate systems, an underlayment that acts as waterproofing and then a separate layer on top as UV and weather protection.

Somewhat off topic is that you are in Mass which means the potential for ice damming. When you have the roof redone get it stripped and then apply Ice and Water Shield from the bottom to the top. I personally stick with the WR Grace Product and I see a lot of commercial roofers sticking with the same product. Some roofers go cheap and install a generic ice and water shield and my experience is its not the same, far thinner and far less self sealing. Once the Ice and Water shield is down, ice damming is far less likely to be an issue unless you have really screwed up attic ventilation combined with lack of proper soffit ventilation. Note most commercial installers of metal roofing (standing seam or exposed fasteners) use the same product under the metal. The other benefit is the Ice and Water shield completely seals the roof and all the fasteners, as long as its protected from UV, the roof will not leak. That why its used on commercial roofs and buildings, the extra cost is cheap insurance from long term roof issues.

With Ice and Water Shield underneath its quite easy to install a conventional PV panels and not worry about leaks if proper flashed in feet are used.

[johnshenry]

Thanks for the insights. Elon-hate aside, and after researching further, I agree that Tesla and other shingles are not ready for prime time. My first roofing contractor visit for quote just left. He is about to install solar on his house here in town as well. He strongly encouraged ice and water shield, specifically Grace brand which is guaranteed against leaks (but more expensive) under the entire roof. He does not think that there is any "prep" steps to be taken on a new roof for PV panels, especially with 100% ice and water shield. We have had issues with ice dams/leaks. Roof is soffit and ridge vented but (in my opinion) attic AC air handler creates heat leaks no matter how well insulated (and we cover all the vents and returns in the winter).

I did sign up at energy sage and am getting quotes now.

Interesting about claiming roof replacement as part of PV install prep to get 30% ITC. Anyone actually done this successfully? Would it matter that the roofer would be separate bill/provider than the solar company?

[J.P.M.]

Thanks for the insights. Elon-hate aside, and after researching further, I agree that Tesla and other shingles are not ready for prime time. My first roofing contractor visit for quote just left. He is about to install solar on his house here in town as well. He strongly encouraged ice and water shield, specifically Grace brand which is guaranteed against leaks (but more expensive) under the entire roof. He does not think that there is any "prep" steps to be taken on a new roof for PV panels, especially with 100% ice and water shield. We have had issues with ice dams/leaks. Roof is soffit and ridge vented but (in my opinion) attic AC air handler creates heat leaks no matter how well insulated (and we cover all the vents and returns in the winter).

I did sign up at energy sage and am getting quotes now.

Interesting about claiming roof replacement as part of PV install prep to get 30% ITC. Anyone actually done this successfully? Would it matter that the roofer would be separate bill/provider than the solar company?

On the roof replacement being eligible for tax credit: Sort of a gray area, but often, any roof repair necessary as a result of adding alternate energy may be eligible. If you are adding a, say, 250 ft.^2 PV array to a roof, and the entire roof needs repair/reroofing, and it's a 2,000 ft.^2 roof, you'll probably be challenged if you were to claim a tax credit that included all the costs for the entire roof.

Consult a tax professional and/or the IRS. Everything here is no better than speculation from semi anonymous sources.

[JSchnee21]

Yes, me. I can only speak for myself, and do not provide tax advice one way or the other. But, in my case, I replaced my entire roof (underlayment, shingles, vents, flashing, two skylights, etc.) as part of my solar installation. My solar installer has a partner company that does roofing. Roofing work was done as a sub through my solar purchase. yes, I got 30% back on my taxes this Spring 2018 (roof and PV system installed Spring of 2017). I have 37 panels which take up approx 45-50% of my entire roofing surface. I was straight forward with my PV installer that this was my intention from day one. They seemed to have no issue with it and many of their customers do the same. When I filed my taxes through Turbotax, I just entered the amount of the entire system and took the rebate. No additional paperwork / documentation was required -- to my surprise. My roofing cost was pretty modest, approx $8K, versus $37K for the PV system.

Per the government program, claiming the cost of "Site Prep" is perfectly permissible -- including roofing / truss work as needed given the expected life span of the PV system and it's weight / mounting requirements per code and AHJ. Now what constitutes the limits of "Site Prep" is undefined an open to legal interpretation. In my case, my roof was original to the house, 20 yrs old, and made of the poorest quality builder grade shingle imaginable.

So, if one was really counting the beans, perhaps only ~50% of the $8K was technically "required" for the PV install.

But, certainly, talk to as many tax professionals as you deem necessary. Some are conservative and will not let you claim anything. Others are more liberal (some too liberal) and will let you claim almost anything. In the end it's really just a crap shoot. Like any dealings with government, having your papers in order is far more important than what they actually say.

Many have similar questions / concerns about SREC credits and even PoCo offsets. Once again small potatoes in my opinion, I pay 10's of 1000's in federal tax annually, I cannot believe anyone is anyone is going to trouble themselves over $100-1000 here or there in SREC credits or excess generation credits.

But, be sure to get as much professional advise as you need to feel comfortable you're making an informed decision.