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SDG&E sharpening the guillotine for residential solar.

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  • #31
    Originally posted by peakbagger View Post
    Interesting that CA is going to require PV on all new housing by 2020. Wonder if it will get to the point were folks will intentionally disconnect the PV to avoid the charges from the local utilities?
    I can't see that actually happening (The bolded portion, I know the required PV bill has already passed), even someone who was only 200kWhr/mo at $40ish/mo and never turns their AC on, they don't care that it's 115F outside, would still be clocking in at about $480 normal charges per year for buying soley from the grid, on just about any plan I can see available in CA (most are much much higher) so $120 in monthy plus $37.50 annually is $157.5 a year, that's still $322.5 lower to leave the solar on. Plus, they would be getting paid back for excess solar produced.

    Now, not wanting to pay but being force into the solar being installed on new homes in the first place is another story.
    Last edited by TAZ427; 05-16-2018, 05:58 PM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by TAZ427 View Post
      I can't see that actually happening,
      Too late. The communist dictator gobenor of Mexico Jerry Brown got reelected and has already made it happen. CA voters deserve it.

      Source Info
      Last edited by Sunking; 05-16-2018, 05:58 PM.
      MSEE, PE

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Sunking View Post
        Too late. The communist dictator gobenor of Mexico Jerry Brown got reelected and has already made it happen. CA voters deserve it.

        Source Info
        I thought it was self evident that I was referring to someone disconnecting to avoid those small fees, but I should have clarified, I was referring to someone disconnecting a forced install to avoid the $10/mo fee and $37.50 annual fee. That's now clarified. I'm well aware of the legislation

        One can debate the pro's and con's of requiring Solar to be installed on new construction, and what sizing it will be, my guess enough to produce about 1/2 of the power that would be consumed typically for the house it's size, and poor design is going to result in people not being able to build out like they want w/o getting shafted by builders. That said, the Electric Companies have all of us in CA over a barrel.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by TAZ427 View Post
          That said, the Electric Companies have all of us in CA over a barrel.
          No they do not, CA goberment did that. Utilities did not have a thing to do with it, they were forced into it and warned this was going to happen. Voters got what they asked for, SCREWED.

          MSEE, PE

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          • #35
            I would be very unhappy being told something like that must be on my roof. Ground mounted here.
            More neighbors mounting PV, often on the metal roof of a farmers shed nearby. Too soon to see
            just how this will play out operationally. No solar connect fees, little air cond used, the Wild West
            does have some advantages. Bruce Roe

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Sunking View Post
              No they do not, CA goberment did that. Utilities did not have a thing to do with it, they were forced into it and warned this was going to happen. Voters got what they asked for, SCREWED.
              Admittedly, I don't know the history of it, as I moved to CA in Sept 2015. So, I didn't vote Brown in, and he's not on the ballet now. I have only seen the government capitulating to power company requests. I know a lot of PG&E's is because of PG&E's major screw ups, such as the big arsed Natural Gas explosion, and the buck gets passed on to the consumer.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by TAZ427 View Post

                That said, the Electric Companies have all of us in CA over a barrel.
                Maybe, but only if that's what you or others think. At worst, and to continue the metaphor, users have some control over the size of the barrel. Problem with that is most don't know it, or won't do anything proactive about their perceived plight. A lot of moaning and bitching with little beyond that in the way education and common sense measures.

                Then, rather than move logically with a plan toward lower energy use, they run in what often resembles near panic from high self inflicted electric bills and throw money and other resources at what's about the least cost effective way to reduce such a bill - PV.

                Reactive waste over proactive planning and self determination. Human nature never changes.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

                  Maybe, but only if that's what you or others think. At worst, and to continue the metaphor, users have some control over the size of the barrel. Problem with that is most don't know it, or won't do anything proactive about their perceived plight. A lot of moaning and bitching with little beyond that in the way education and common sense measures.

                  Then, rather than move logically with a plan toward lower energy use, they run in what often resembles near panic from high self inflicted electric bills and throw money and other resources at what's about the least cost effective way to reduce such a bill - PV.

                  Reactive waste over proactive planning and self determination. Human nature never changes.
                  Simple rule of thumb. "Using less electricity will save you more money".

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by SunEagle View Post

                    Simple rule of thumb. "Using less electricity will save you more money".
                    +1. As I learned and have always said - start by simply turning stuff off or not turning stuff on in the first place.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

                      Maybe, but only if that's what you or others think. At worst, and to continue the metaphor, users have some control over the size of the barrel. Problem with that is most don't know it, or won't do anything proactive about their perceived plight. A lot of moaning and bitching with little beyond that in the way education and common sense measures.

                      Then, rather than move logically with a plan toward lower energy use, they run in what often resembles near panic from high self inflicted electric bills and throw money and other resources at what's about the least cost effective way to reduce such a bill - PV.

                      Reactive waste over proactive planning and self determination. Human nature never changes.
                      I 100% agree with the energy use side of things. I was speaking more of the rates, which in general start out a 2x the national average, are on a tier system that go to 3-4x the national average, or on a TOU system that goes even higher during peak times (and it's annoying that going Solar in CA at least on PG&E you're now forced into using one of the TOU plans.)

                      Since I moved to CA, on Nextdoor, in the winter I hear the OMG I got a $900 PG&E bill (turn the heat down) and OMG I got a $1000 electric bill, (set the temp higher.)

                      My power consumption manages to come in lower than average for those with my same size house in the area, and I'm running a pool pump every day (yes it's a variable speed pump.) My AC is set to 78F for the summer, heat at 65F in the winter, I installed a whole house fan after the 1st summer (600W/hr running is much better than the 3000W/hr on the AC) even preventing a couple hours worth of AC running during the 115F days is worth it. Lights are off if not in use. I had a free energy inspection, and about the only thing they guy could say was, maybe turn off my cable modem and router at night (well, I've got security camera's and ring doorbell that needs internet access to upload any events) and maybe a couple other piddly things, that with a power meter and calculations might account for 0.5% of my electricity usage. I'll be time shifting when my pool pump runs, to accommodate the TOU.

                      I definitely understand, that some people are running away from high self inflected electric bills and throwing money at other things instead of looking to reduce their usage. I'm seeing it every summer with the complaints on Nextdoor and then going immediately to solar, instead of adjusting usage habits, adding a whole house fan, or other things to mitigate their power consumption.

                      Personally, I'm not really running away from high rates, I'm running towards money savings over time. Also, running towards a personal lower CO2 generation.

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                      • #41
                        I sure do love net metering. I have a single meter that reduces the number when I produce and increases the number when I consume. If the consumption in a given month is negative, my bill gets a credit that will reduce future bills until May 1 of each year when any remaining credits expire and start over. It's an increasingly rare arrangement, though.

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                        • #42
                          Good idea, cutting consumption. Good starting point is knowing just where/how much the energy
                          is going. Before Solar, I measured all the heavy hitters. That left a substantial phantom load of
                          many, many smaller items drawing power 24/7. Back then it looked something like this, eventually
                          I eliminated about 3/4s of the waste. Bruce Roe
                          +++++++++++++++
                          Here is a list of phantom loads I tracked down in 2010-12, which used
                          continuous power listed even when turned off.

                          OFF
                          Watts--Units------ Description------ Remedy
                          3.5-- 1 microwave oven---- redesign control to unplug till door opened
                          1.4-- 2 security camera
                          10 --1 FM tuner and amplifier--- rewire power switch to AC line side
                          3---- 2 garage door opener----- redesign with tape wound transformer
                          4 ----2 smoke detector RES
                          2 ----2 CO2 detector RES
                          5 ----2 printer----------- plug into light switched outlet
                          3---- 2 laptop supply
                          1.1-- 1 projection atomic clock
                          1.5 --1 bedroom clock radio
                          2----- 1 talking alarm--- remove
                          1.2-- 1 guest bedroom clock--- unplug
                          1---- 2 out building light control---- change transformer
                          1---- 1 central vacuum--- change transformer
                          3.9-- 1 phone ans machine + wireless---- redesign power supply
                          1.7-- 2 antenna preamp--- change transformer
                          5----- 2 TV remote control------ RES
                          4----- 3 TV digital converter box---- change out TVs
                          4 -----2 furnace trasformer---- change transformer
                          3 -----1 door bell-------------- power from furnace transformer
                          12 ---1 alarm system------- power from furnace transformer
                          3 -----1 duplicate control--- remove
                          4----- 1 heat pump transformer--- RES
                          46--- 1 heat pump heater--- disconnect
                          1 ----20 GFI outlets
                          1----- 9 motion detector lights
                          6----- 4 electronic shop instruments---- plug into light switched outlet
                          3.5-- 6 battery maintainers-- redesign
                          2 -----1 stove clock
                          1----- 3 garage door radio
                          7----- 1 phone booth light---- change to 1.5W LED
                          3----- 1 electric toothbrush
                          3------ 3 WiFi signal boosters & ant
                          4----- 1 VHS tape player
                          2----- 1 hot water circulator---- redesign power supply
                          0.5--- 1 dead ceiling fan radio--- remove
                          about 300W total

                          RES = replace with Energy Star version

                          A 1W continuous phantom load will add 8.766 KWH a year to the electric bill. I started
                          with 300W, 2630 KWH a year. This list is not complete and is continuously changing.
                          Last edited by bcroe; 05-17-2018, 01:33 PM.

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                          • #43
                            Bruce,

                            This is a great list and think it deserves to be a sticky in a new category.
                            I made a much weaker attempt at this a couple years ago when I posted a list of items I thought most people didn't realize were drawing phantom loads, but never put numbers to it.

                            By giving it its own thread people could add to it.

                            Even if my equipment list is half his, 1,314.9kWh is more than a 12% reduction on my bill or in my case more credit as my system is well balanced at ~100% of my usage.
                            Last edited by LLB; 05-17-2018, 04:40 PM.
                            19 SPR X21 345 / SMA 6000TL-US22

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                            • #44
                              Bruce many of those items cannot be turned off either by codes or common sense. Example CO2/Smoke, alarm systems and clocks. Never heard of a ceiling fan radio. If you were to go that far might a swell live in cave or travel back in time before electricity.
                              MSEE, PE

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                              • #45
                                I
                                Originally posted by Sunking View Post
                                Bruce many of those items cannot be turned off either by codes or common sense. Example CO2/Smoke, alarm systems and clocks. Never heard of a ceiling fan radio. If you were to go that far might a swell live in cave or travel back in time before electricity.
                                I think he meant one of those automatic control boxes that allow you control the fan speed from a remote control unit.

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