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What would residential solar look like without net metering?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by SupraLance View Post

    Why does everyone say a grid-tie system will produce more? If you use the power as it's produced, the panels produce the same in either scenario. Granted, if you store the energy and use it later you get less out of the batteries, but aren't there additional costs from the POCO when you do the same with grid-tie, such as selling the power at wholesale rate and buying it back at retail?
    First. Most power companies do not have a fee

    secons it is hard to use all the power that is produced when it is produced. With grid tie you can produced the max and full amount at any time.
    Off grid you can not. Batteries full, no load, good sun but no place to put it....
    thus the panels do NOT produce the same off grid as on grid.

    Net metering is not at wholesale rate it is at retail rate, that is kind of what net metering means, Excess is at wholesale but that is excess and not what we are talking about.
    Last edited by ButchDeal; 03-20-2018, 11:10 PM.
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    • #77
      My understanding is I get paid retail rates even for power generated in excess of my usage for the year.

      My power company used to charge $185 to get a bidirectional meter installed. They dropped the new meter fee when they started to install smart meters. The smart meters can have bidirectional mode turned on remotely.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by reader2580 View Post
        My understanding is I get paid retail rates even for power generated in excess of my usage for the year.
        Net Excess Generation (NEG) varies from utility to utility. Some are covered under state laws and others not.
        In some states you don't get any money for NEG, in most you get wholesale rates, In very very few you get retail for NEG.

        However Net Metering means that you get retail rate for all the power up to what you consume, usually annually (but a few areas are only monthly and some will let you carry forward indefinitely).

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        • #79
          Originally posted by reader2580 View Post
          My understanding is I get paid retail rates even for power generated in excess of my usage for the year.

          My power company used to charge $185 to get a bidirectional meter installed. They dropped the new meter fee when they started to install smart meters. The smart meters can have bidirectional mode turned on remotely.
          In post #4 you state you do not get paid for excess production......which is it?

          Net metering schemes are not going to disappear but will be replaced with more reasonable schemes that make economic sense in the long term. I think your assumption of net metering disappearing and being replaced with nothing is way off the mark.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by DanS26 View Post

            In post #4 you state you do not get paid for excess production......which is it?

            Net metering schemes are not going to disappear but will be replaced with more reasonable schemes that make economic sense in the long term. I think your assumption of net metering disappearing and being replaced with nothing is way off the mark.
            You misread post #4. I was talking about what could happen if net metering went away. I have net metering right now and I believe I get full retail rates for any excess power I don't consume. I should email the solar guy at the CO-OP to verify this.

            I cannot predict the future and I have no idea what will happen if/when net metering goes away. My electrical co-op generates no power except a small solar garden and buys power from a non-profit power producer. The co-op pays 7.5 cents per KWh for wholesale power. It is reasonable to assume they would pay 7.5 cents per KWh for power if/when net metering goes away.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by reader2580 View Post

              You misread post #4. I was talking about what could happen if net metering went away. I have net metering right now and I believe I get full retail rates for any excess power I don't consume. I should email the solar guy at the CO-OP to verify this.
              Where are you and what is the Power company. Very few give full retail for NEG. or are you talking about " power you do not consume (at the time but within the month or year)"

              Co-OPs in most states are NOT bound by law to provide net metering BTW.
              OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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              • #82
                Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post

                Where are you and what is the Power company. Very few give full retail for NEG. or are you talking about " power you do not consume (at the time but within the month or year)"

                Co-OPs in most states are NOT bound by law to provide net metering BTW.
                I am in Minnesota and get power from Connexus Energy.

                I just looked at the state law regarding net metering and cooperatives are required to participate in net metering for systems 40 KW and under. The law also specifies that power generated in excess of that consumed must be paid for at the average retail rate. One could install a 40 KW system and get paid retail rates for all the excess power produced. (Not that I would recommend this.)

                Cooperatives are allowed to charge a fee for solar users to help pay for the grid. I pay I think $3.54 per month per system KW that is over 3 KW up to 10 KW.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by reader2580 View Post

                  I am in Minnesota and get power from Connexus Energy.

                  I just looked at the state law regarding net metering and cooperatives are required to participate in net metering for systems 40 KW and under.
                  Yes Minnesota is one of the very few states that the law covers All utilities. Most do not.
                  http://programs.dsireusa.org/system/program/detail/282


                  Originally posted by reader2580 View Post
                  The law also specifies that power generated in excess of that consumed must be paid for at the average retail rate. One could install a 40 KW system and get paid retail rates for all the excess power produced. (Not that I would recommend this.)

                  Cooperatives are allowed to charge a fee for solar users to help pay for the grid. I pay I think $3.54 per month per system KW that is over 3 KW up to 10 KW.
                  It is also the exception on NEG.

                  As I said in MOST states coops do not legal have to participate and in almost all states NEG is compensated at Wholesale or not at all.

                  that small fee seems fair for getting compensated at retail rate for NEG on larger systems.

                  MD as a good example of standard: http://programs.dsireusa.org/system/program/detail/363
                  OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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