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  • #31
    My issue right now its funds available. This was an emergency build and trying to do it as efficiently possible within budget ($2,500) And I'm stuck in the dilemma of inverter and battery charger. And having no power what so ever for the last 95 days kinda sucks. But trying to be as smart with the investment without overspending. kinda hard I know, Btw thank to you Sunking and Mike90250 for the help and advice

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post

      No
      Do it right the first time.

      The inverter 61V shutdown is a problem, you need to get to 64V sometimes to properly EQ the battery bank.

      Do you have any 240V loads ?

      Your actual usable sun hours are less than 9a - 3p. You can get some harvest then, but it won't be much.

      More than 15A of charger @ 48V will require a 240V generator to run it from
      [QUOTE=Mike90250;n368688]


      OK so 48v it is. No I'm not planning on having 240 loads running of batteries biggest load will be a fridge about 8 hours other than that 2 fans and some LED lights during night time. Well sun hours was going by info got on Renogy site (i think) and by looking outside. Which brings me to my other question what is the recommended panel wattage to charge 48v @230a/h bank?

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      • #33
        Ok so If I decide to go with the Inverter/Charger System I have some questions so that it would help me sell the idea (and over spending to the Mrs )

        Here are the specs of the Inverter:
        The 2000 watt 48 volt low frequency AIMS Power inverter charger transforms DC (direct current) power, stored by batteries, into AC (alternating current) electricity that can be used to run your various tools and appliances. This inverter also has a built in AC-to-DC battery converter charger 20A, which allows users to recharge their battery bank from an AC source such as a fuel-powered generator, shore power or a regular outlet at home. The built in battery charger features a seven type battery selector and 3 stage charging, for safely and effectively charging your battery source. Use this product for renewable solar, off-grid, mobile and emergency backup power applications anywhere that uses 110 or 120 volts of alternating current. This product also has auto frequency detection that allows users to operate at either 50 or 60 hertz.

        Is this inverter able to recharge batteries back on cloudy days etc? Its 20A so maybe not charge completely but help in not killing batteries before their time
        On another topic, If I want to add to my existing battery bank (later on), It would have to be as a separate bank?

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Emorales View Post
          ...... Which brings me to my other question what is the recommended panel wattage to charge 48v @230a/h bank?
          1) your inverter appears to be able to supply 20A for battery charging, from the Generator or Grid. The charging voltage will be about 60V @ 20 A would be
          about 1200 watts. About the max an ordinary wall outlet can safely handle for several hours (long term battery charging will heat up most wall outlet plug connections, like how a coffee pot plug gets hot in the outlet) With losses and such, I would recommend a 3Kw generator. This will prevent sulfation of the batteries, if you time the generator running properly.

          2) to HARVEST 1200W of PV power, you need to install about 1,500 watts of well aimed PV panels. I would error on the side of Abundance, and recommend about 2,000 w of PV installed, with a MPPT solar charge controller (you did know you need this $500 piece of hardware ? ) Few installs have folks complaining that they have too many solar panels. Extra panels help avoid generator runtime in partly cloudy conditions. This should be good for the short sunny days in winter, and summertime, you will have excess. if you have shadows (tree branches, clouds, telephone poles) the harvest will be reduced.

          With this setup, you would be pretty balanced with solar and batteries. But if you add batteries, you will need to add more charging capability, or you ruin all the batteries from chronic undercharging.

          You haven't mentioned any load calculations, so I'll assume (incorrectly) you have already done the calculations and determined this size bank can handle :
          48V x 230ah = 11,040 possible watt hours, so a daily 20% usage would be 2Kwh daily load, MAX.

          Consume more, and you start deeply discharging the batteries, and you will get fewer overall cycles from them.

          Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
          || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
          || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

          solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
          gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post

            1) your inverter appears to be able to supply 20A for battery charging, from the Generator or Grid. The charging voltage will be about 60V @ 20 A would be
            about 1200 watts. About the max an ordinary wall outlet can safely handle for several hours (long term battery charging will heat up most wall outlet plug connections, like how a coffee pot plug gets hot in the outlet) With losses and such, I would recommend a 3Kw generator. This will prevent sulfation of the batteries, if you time the generator running properly.

            2) to HARVEST 1200W of PV power, you need to install about 1,500 watts of well aimed PV panels. I would error on the side of Abundance, and recommend about 2,000 w of PV installed, with a MPPT solar charge controller (you did know you need this $500 piece of hardware ? ) Few installs have folks complaining that they have too many solar panels. Extra panels help avoid generator runtime in partly cloudy conditions. This should be good for the short sunny days in winter, and summertime, you will have excess. if you have shadows (tree branches, clouds, telephone poles) the harvest will be reduced.

            With this setup, you would be pretty balanced with solar and batteries. But if you add batteries, you will need to add more charging capability, or you ruin all the batteries from chronic undercharging.

            You haven't mentioned any load calculations, so I'll assume (incorrectly) you have already done the calculations and determined this size bank can handle :
            48V x 230ah = 11,040 possible watt hours, so a daily 20% usage would be 2Kwh daily load, MAX.

            Consume more, and you start deeply discharging the batteries, and you will get fewer overall cycles from them.
            1. Yes I do have a 3.5kw generator that will be used to recharge batteries when needed or when grid power is restored used that. By timing what do you mean?
            2. Yes I do know I need the MPPT although going a little less in budget (hopefully in a year I can upgrade to an Outback 80A) Im buying a 48V 60A 150v max (its chinese but had good reviews and hopefully it lasts enough to upgrade) Current set up its 3 panels @260w looking to add 1 panel a month in the upcoming months (wired series parallel and adding another mppt when necesasary) What is the best option you recommend to integrate multiple mppt and solar arrays?
            3. Yes know if add more batteries have to account for recharge. When I add more batteries do I have to make a new battery bank or can I integrate them to the old bank?
            4. Nope you assumed correctly I had done the calculations but I did at 40%. Now Im assuming thats too low % discharge? Thought 50% was the lowest allowed
            5. What is better inverter 2000w @120vac or 240vac or both? Not planning on running 240v appliances at least with this set up
            Last edited by Emorales; 12-25-2017, 06:14 PM.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Emorales View Post
              1. Yes I do have a 3.5kw generator that will be used to recharge batteries when needed or when grid power is restored used that. By timing what do you mean?
              intelligent timing of running the generator. I do mine, so that I reach mid absorb, about the time the sun is scheduled to come out (if it comes out that day)
              often start at 8am. run 2 hours , and catch the sun emerging at 10 am, and let the sun finish off the charge, instead of running the generator loaded at 10% to finish the last part of Absorb.


              2. Yes I do know I need the MPPT although going a little less in budget (hopefully in a year I can upgrade to an Outback 80A) Im buying a 48V 60A 150v max (its chinese but had good reviews and hopefully it lasts enough to upgrade) Current set up its 3 panels @260w looking to add 1 panel a month in the upcoming months (wired series parallel and adding another mppt when necesasary) What is the best option you recommend to integrate multiple mppt and solar arrays?
              Jut don't get a counterfeit PWM controller with a MPPT sticker over the painted logo......


              3. Yes know if add more batteries have to account for recharge. When I add more batteries do I have to make a new battery bank or can I integrate them to the old bank?
              After 6 months use, don't bother getting a new set. The new batteries will quickly age to match the old batteries, and then with parallel batteries, its a race to the bottom
              if you don't have a way to charge them at 10% capacity, adding more batteries will not get bubbled enough and the electrolyte stratifies.


              4. Nope you assumed correctly I had done the calculations but I did at 40%. Now Im assuming thats too low % discharge? Thought 50% was the lowest allowed
              20% discharge on a daily basis, 50% on occasional.



              5. What is better inverter 2000w @120vac or 240vac or both?
              The smallest one that can run all your critical gear. Often the Well Pump is the driving appliance. Being able to have enough headroom surge to start the fridge is important.
              Larger than what you need, wastes power when the electronics are idle.
              240VAC is nice if you want to wire house with a conventional "Split Phase" AC panel.
              Last edited by Mike90250; 12-25-2017, 08:10 PM. Reason: typos, 240V
              Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
              || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
              || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

              solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
              gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

              Comment


              • #37
                1. Hopefully I don't get ripped
                2. So example I have a 90w fan I want to run for 10hrs that's 900w. Now do I subtract that from the 20% available and so on, or is that calculated differently?
                3. What type of DC meters do you recommend to monitor percentages, charge state etc

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Emorales View Post
                  1. Hopefully I don't get ripped
                  2. So example I have a 90w fan I want to run for 10hrs that's 900w. Now do I subtract that from the 20% available and so on, or is that calculated differently?
                  48V x 230ah = 11,040 possible watt hours, so a daily 20% usage would be 2Kwh daily load, MAX.

                  That 900 Wh is part of the 2,000wh you are allowed. So you have 1100wh left for everything else.
                  ( note w=watts, wh = watt hours Adding the K, moves the decimal point 3 places. 1K = 1,000 900= 0.9K )


                  3. What type of DC meters do you recommend to monitor percentages, charge state etc
                  me ? None. Print a State Of Charge chart, use a volt meter, and make your own readings. Because flooded batteries need 120% of what was withdrawn, to recharge with, most meters diverge from reality in a couple weeks. Some are smart and can be "tuned" and adjusted, but learning your system, gives you the best results

                  Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                  || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                  || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                  solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                  gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Emorales View Post
                    I have a 90w fan I want to run for 10hrs that's 900w
                    It is actually 900wh or 0.9kwh.

                    90w X 10h = 900wh The h has to balance.
                    OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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                    • #40
                      Is this table accurate?
                      Attached Files

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                      • #41
                        The voltage numbers as related to Soc. Must be taken from a rested battery that has had no charging OR discharging for say 6 hours. It is a very impractical way to determine Soc. Specific gravity readings are a much more accurate way to find Soc.These numbers on the chart are for Trojan batteries. Different batteries Specific gravity numbers may vary.
                        2.2kw Suntech mono, Classic 200, NEW Trace SW4024

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                        • #42
                          Any Pros or Cons with Aims brand inverter/charger?

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Emorales View Post
                            Any Pros or Cons with Aims brand inverter/charger?
                            Yep you get what you pay for.
                            MSEE, PE

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                            • #44
                              As with anything

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                              • #45
                                What determines what rate fuse to use

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