Picking the right System Help.

[steveholtam]

The inverter is barely warm to the touch. I'd put it inside as well.

[arf88]

You're welcome. Try to get panels with continuous/sequential serial numbers. Not critical, but a nice touch.

The most the SolarEdge unit will add heat wise is ~ = [array output * (1-inverter eff.)], probably a bit less.

By way of comparison(s), If you have a tank H2O heater in the garage, its heat loss is already adding probably 2X or more what the inverter will add. A car that's been operating for an hr. or so on a warm/ sunny day will add much more. The heat an inverter will add is peanuts by comparison.

IMO, the electronics will be a lot better off and safer in the garage than elsewhere.

Installers would rather put them outside as it's usually/often easier to do it that way.

Thanks, I contacted Panasonic and the rep told me it is hard to knock off their panels but there is serial numbers on there and he told me if I provided him those numbers he can tell me if they are authentic and when they were produced. I don't know if I can ask the company to provide sequential panels but I will look at all the panels and verify the numbers to the panasonic rep.

I initially wanted to put it in the garage but I don't want any more heat in the garage even if it is minor because I work in there and like to keep it cool. That said the side of the house where the meter is doesn't get a lot of sun so it only has to deal with ambient temps. Also the model I'm receiving is the HD model so it runs slightly cooler which is nice.

I did have ask them to run the conduit so its not visible at all the way it will be routed for aesthetics. For the mounts I opted for the 6" vs the 3" for better cooling for the solar panels.

[arf88]

The inverter is barely warm to the touch. I'd put it inside as well.

It may be too late to make this last minute change on paper. I can certainly ask during the install process if they can do this. I don't have much room though on the wall where it would be installed opposite of the breaker box.

[J.P.M.]

Thanks, I contacted Panasonic and the rep told me it is hard to knock off their panels but there is serial numbers on there and he told me if I provided him those numbers he can tell me if they are authentic and when they were produced. I don't know if I can ask the company to provide sequential panels but I will look at all the panels and verify the numbers to the panasonic rep.

I initially wanted to put it in the garage but I don't want any more heat in the garage even if it is minor because I work in there and like to keep it cool. That said the side of the house where the meter is doesn't get a lot of sun so it only has to deal with ambient temps. Also the model I'm receiving is the HD model so it runs slightly cooler which is nice.

I did have ask them to run the conduit so its not visible at all the way it will be routed for aesthetics. For the mounts I opted for the 6" vs the 3" for better cooling for the solar panels.

You're welcome. NOMB and I don't really care, but if you put your car in the garage after a drive home from work on a sunny and/or hot day, it gives off something like about an order of magnitude more heat than any inverter for an array you're considering ever would. If your garage is insulated as you say, the car will make it much warmer than an inverter. You're ignorance is messing with your decision making. You're confused about heat, electricity, their equivalence, and the amount of each given off as the waste of the inversion process.

[arf88]

You're welcome. NOMB and I don't really care, but if you put your car in the garage after a drive home from work on a sunny and/or hot day, it gives off something like about an order of magnitude more heat than any inverter for an array you're considering ever would. If your garage is insulated as you say, the car will make it much warmer than an inverter. You're ignorance is messing with your decision making. You're confused about heat, electricity, their equivalence, and the amount of each given off as the waste of the inversion process.

No need to start making assumptions about ones intellect and hurling insults! I'm an Engineer so I'm well aware of what you are taking about and far from ignorant. I do not park my cars in the garage and never will. In fact I went out of my way to insulate the garage and keep it cool given how warm it gets in the summers here and how cool it gets at night. The inverter transfers heat via passive cooling through its heatsink cooling fins via natural convection. It is not active cooling like the standard SE models and SME with fan(s), thus a certain amount of heat (BTU) is expelled and expected. If you have ever used a Flir IR camera or similar instrument like I have, you can easily see any power inverter glowing like the sun and running well above ambient temps. The TDP of the SE inverter is made to handle a significant input into the system, the conversion through the inverter is never 100% and thus part is lost as heat during the conversion process, this loss is like a mini convection oven running without the fan in a closed room with minimal ventilation, it is less than ideal on summer months. Lets also not forget to mention the noise output as another concern. I'm not opposed to putting the inverter in the garage, but it does come with trade-offs. It is IP65 rated and I have a 25 year warranty on it, if it is outdoors and it fails in less than 25 years I'm covered with a new replacement, in the event it fails sooner I would consider moving in inside at that time. Hopefully this clears up any confusion.

Happy Thanksgiving

[J.P.M.]

No need to start making assumptions about ones intellect and hurling insults! I'm an Engineer so I'm well aware of what you are taking about and far from ignorant. I do not park my cars in the garage and never will. In fact I went out of my way to insulate the garage and keep it cool given how warm it gets in the summers here and how cool it gets at night. The inverter transfers heat via passive cooling through its heatsink cooling fins via natural convection. It is not active cooling like the standard SE models and SME with fan(s), thus a certain amount of heat (BTU) is expelled and expected. If you have ever used a Flir IR camera or similar instrument like I have, you can easily see any power inverter glowing like the sun and running well above ambient temps. The TDP of the SE inverter is made to handle a significant input into the system, the conversion through the inverter is never 100% and thus part is lost as heat during the conversion process, this loss is like a mini convection oven running without the fan in a closed room with minimal ventilation, it is less than ideal on summer months. Lets also not forget to mention the noise output as another concern. I'm not opposed to putting the inverter in the garage, but it does come with trade-offs. It is IP65 rated and I have a 25 year warranty on it, if it is outdoors and it fails in less than 25 years I'm covered with a new replacement, in the event it fails sooner I would consider moving in inside at that time. Hopefully this clears up any confusion.

Happy Thanksgiving

Yea, no smart person I know would ever park their car in the garage.

I don't think I mentioned or referenced your intellect. FWIW, I believe that intellectual prowess is about equal in most folks. I referred to what I see as your ignorance, mostly, with respect to heat transfer and fluid mechanics as they might relate to your garage. Your post above reinforces my opinion.

Ignorance is not mental deficiency. It just means there is a knowledge gap. Google both for the difference.

After interviewing several hundred engineers over a career and hiring probably about 10 % of them or less, I think I've gleaned some insight into the depth of engineering knowledge, and more importantly engineering attitude that folks claiming to be engineers might possess. From what you write, and how you write it, you seem to know some, but not much of the basics of heat transfer.

Be happy in your ignorant hubris. Sorry I wasted my time and yours.

[bcroe]

And a happy Thanksgiving to all. Bruce Roe

[sensij]

The human body gives off something on the order of 100 W of heat into the environment. A 99% efficient HD-Wave inverter, running at 5 kW, would put out around 50 W of heat. In the morning and evening, it would be even less.

The thermal effect of having the inverter in the garage would be like someone joining you in there to eat a cold lunch, I guess.

[J.P.M.]

and a happy thanksgiving to all. Bruce roe

bah ! Humbug !

[DrChaos]

Hi Everyone,

I have read a lot of different beginner guides to solar and I'm just overwhelmed at the amount of information out there and the inconsistencies about product selection.

I have 3 different companies coming out this Sat to give me quotes and their sales pitch likely.

I want an efficient system that I don't have to expand with more panels later b/c Edison increased the rates slightly. I want zero maintenance as much as possible besides cleaning the panels which a lot of people I notice do not and that makes them less efficient. I'm not concerned about aesthetics at all since its on the back side of the house. I've got 2 local installers and I also have SolarCity and I'm considering having costco Sunrun come give a quote too even though their ConsumerReport ratings are horrible it can't hurt to have more to compare to.

I am going with Baker Electric because a family member had a good experience with them, and they were very effective at project management for construction. They have had a conventional electric division for many decades (I need some distribution upgrades) and do significant commercial solar and electric work as well. Commercial clients are generally more sophisticated.

The point is that some version of the company will be around in 15 years, unlike many tiny solar-only companies.

Inverter: What type of inverter(s) do you recommend, Micro or a Single unit. Pros and cons to both, with Micro you have multiple single point of failure and with a Single inverter you have one to worry about.

Baker recommended a single SolarEdge inverter unit mounted on the side but with individual 'microoptimizers' per-panel on the roof to provide the optimum per-panel load to maximize performance when one panel has more or less sun or degradation than others (same benefit as microinverter, without converting to AC), otherwise you are limited to the weakest panel in the link.

From what I've read (I'm a newbie though) that seems like a good combination because the single inverter will be easier to access and service & replace. You can also put it in a shaded location which is less hot (as heat is bad for electronic longevity). The small units on the roof are cheaper, simpler and waranteed for longer.

In addition, the SolarEdge inverter has some newer technology in it: the conversion to AC is done with an algorithm that isn't a simple pulse modulation but a stepped one (more like the hybrid methods in modern D to A converters). The main advantage is that the final transformers, the heavy magnetic parts, are substantially smaller and need to do less work. In addition this particular inverter has thin-film capacitors instead of electrolytic. That's a big deal in my opinion for longevity---many old (and some cheaper new) audio power amplifiers go bad because of the big electrolytic capacitors in their power supplies have degraded. And these are used less and in less harsh conditions than a power inverter.

Anyway, it seems to this newbie that some main reliability risks in power electronics (transformers which get mechanical vibrational degradation, and electrolytic capacitors) are mitigated.

Panels: Name brand like Panasonic, Kyocera, GE or do I go with Suntech which is what one of them says they recommend.

I have no idea, they put me with LG.

[NateHornblower]

It may be too late to make this last minute change on paper. I can certainly ask during the install process if they can do this. I don't have much room though on the wall where it would be installed opposite of the breaker box.

I had my inverters installed outside. I didn't want to tie up the wall space as they have to be mounted at eyesight or reachable by code. Additionally, my garage faces west and gets over 90 degrees in the AM for a significant part of the year and we all know heat kills electronics. The wall the breaker box is on is on the north wall that shaded most of the time and the air keeps the units cooler.