Quotes in San Diego - Feedback Request

[J.P.M.]

I have bids for LG NeON R 350 in the $2.60 range per watt and Panasonic VBHN325SA16 & VBHN330SA16 in the $2.80 range per watt. Each Panasonic dealer keep trashing LG is much more expensive. How is that when I have 3 LG dealers final pricing all lower than the $2.80/watt?

All bids are 21 to 24 panels range. All system quoted min system size of 7kW up to 7.8kW.

What would you go with? Any why?

Again , initial price is only one indicator, and usually a poor one in terms of most bang for the buck.

For the small amount of difference in per STC Watt price, forget it for the initial determination. Spend more time on vendor research. Both or either product is probably fit for your purposes. Beyond some basic quality level, which you are above with these two panels, the focus ought to shift to other system components such as inverters, wiring, racking, roof attachment (BTW, if a roof mount, keep the panels at least 6" off the roof. things run cooler with a bit better efficiency, for probably longer), and the much more difficult to quantify but essential attributes of quality of workmanship in assembly/hookup, attention to detail and vendor integrity.

Since you ask, I'd go with the vendor I felt the one most qualified to do the work, but only after I did a lot more homework on each of the vendors, including talking to non sales folks, and not have my judgement clouded by the false economy of low initial price. I learned the long term cost and hassle of paying too little many years ago.

I'd also not pay much attention to what a salesperson tells you about prices, especially when they badmouth a competitor. As a former peddler who made a good living at it, that ain't got no class, and in your case, from what you write, not correct either.

Read "Solar Power Your Home for Dummies" before you do any more vendor research. Try to know the answers to your questions before you ask. You'll learn a lot more that way, not only about what you want, but also what the vendors (don't ?) know.

One last thing: if this is a roof mount, get your roof inspected/serviced. PV will last a long time. Give your roof the best probability of lasting as long.

Bottom line: $0.20/STC Watt is peanuts in the bigger scheme of things. Use your head and think long term quality, reliability and performance. You will not regret it.

Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

[bucdenny]

Again , initial price is only one indicator, and usually a poor one in terms of most bang for the buck.

For the small amount of difference in per STC Watt price, forget it for the initial determination. Spend more time on vendor research. Both or either product is probably fit for your purposes. Beyond some basic quality level, which you are above with these two panels, the focus ought to shift to other system components such as inverters, wiring, racking, roof attachment (BTW, if a roof mount, keep the panels at least 6" off the roof. things run cooler with a bit better efficiency, for probably longer), and the much more difficult to quantify but essential attributes of quality of workmanship in assembly/hookup, attention to detail and vendor integrity.

Since you ask, I'd go with the vendor I felt the one most qualified to do the work, but only after I did a lot more homework on each of the vendors, including talking to non sales folks, and not have my judgement clouded by the false economy of low initial price. I learned the long term cost and hassle of paying too little many years ago.

I'd also not pay much attention to what a salesperson tells you about prices, especially when they badmouth a competitor. As a former peddler who made a good living at it, that ain't got no class, and in your case, from what you write, not correct either.

Read "Solar Power Your Home for Dummies" before you do any more vendor research. Try to know the answers to your questions before you ask. You'll learn a lot more that way, not only about what you want, but also what the vendors (don't ?) know.

One last thing: if this is a roof mount, get your roof inspected/serviced. PV will last a long time. Give your roof the best probability of lasting as long.

Bottom line: $0.20/STC Watt is peanuts in the bigger scheme of things. Use your head and think long term quality, reliability and performance. You will not regret it.

Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

Thank you for all your input. I went with local installer that is a Panasonic Dealer offering 25 year workmanship warranty. We went with 24 325 Panasonic panels with SolarEdge SE7600H-US inverter, Iron Ridge Racking with Quick Mount PV. Total before electrical panel upgrade is $2.75/watt and with panel upgrade to 200A $2.99/watt. We have signed contract recently and have install date for next week! Will keep everyone posted.

[J.P.M.]

Thank you for all your input. I went with local installer that is a Panasonic Dealer offering 25 year workmanship warranty. We went with 24 325 Panasonic panels with SolarEdge SE7600H-US inverter, Iron Ridge Racking with Quick Mount PV. Total before electrical panel upgrade is $2.75/watt and with panel upgrade to 200A $2.99/watt. We have signed contract recently and have install date for next week! Will keep everyone posted.

You're welcome.

Was that one of the Panasonic dealers who insisted on badmouthing LG ?

Lastly, did you or will you be getting your roof inspected/serviced ? Cheap insurance you will not regret.

[cmarschi]

buddenny, do you mind sharing, perhaps through private message the installers you are considering? With the tariff, I am getting pricing for LGs that are close to the SP pricing. My current quote is for SP 320s with SE SE6000 at $3.15/watt for 7kW system. Seems like many quotes include the 7600, which I assume is more expensive, and cost per kW well under $3.

[ButchDeal]

With the tariff, I am getting pricing for LGs that are close to the SP pricing. My current quote is for SP 320s with SE SE6000 at $3.15/watt for 7kW system. Seems like many quotes include the 7600, which I assume is more expensive, and cost per kW well under $3.

cost difference is about $200 from SE6000H to SE7600H I would definitely go with the SE7600H for a 7kW system especially if you are getting high performance PV modules like sunpower or LG. Why would you skimp on the inverter?

[bucdenny]

buddenny, do you mind sharing, perhaps through private message the installers you are considering? With the tariff, I am getting pricing for LGs that are close to the SP pricing. My current quote is for SP 320s with SE SE6000 at $3.15/watt for 7kW system. Seems like many quotes include the 7600, which I assume is more expensive, and cost per kW well under $3.

I am not sure how to PM on here. My LG NeON-R quote came at $2.69/watt 24 panels. I gotten all my pricing through Energysage if you looking for pricing between LG and Panasonic. I went with GR8 Energy, Panasonic dealer. The other Panasonic dealers came very close to each other's pricing, but end of the day just like what J.P.M said use your head and think long term quality, reliability and performance. I could have gone with another Panasonic installer for $2.69/watt, but wasn't offering the 25 years workmanship warranty.

So far we haven't had any problems other than the recent rains with our solar now being installed on 3/19. I hope we get PTO by end of the month.

[J.P.M.]

I am not sure how to PM on here. My LG NeON-R quote came at $2.69/watt 24 panels. I gotten all my pricing through Energysage if you looking for pricing between LG and Panasonic. I went with GR8 Energy, Panasonic dealer. The other Panasonic dealers came very close to each other's pricing, but end of the day just like what J.P.M said use your head and think long term quality, reliability and performance. I could have gone with another Panasonic installer for $2.69/watt, but wasn't offering the 25 years workmanship warranty.

So far we haven't had any problems other than the recent rains with our solar now being installed on 3/19. I hope we get PTO by end of the month.

There are no PM's.

As for the install, sit on the roof during install, don't get in the way or spend time B.S.ing with the installers, but watch everything and don't be afraid to ask the lead person a question if something looks fishy. If you see something, say something. That'll beat any workmanship warranty going and only add more Q.C. to the job. If it doesn't, you've got the wrong vendor.

[bucdenny]

There are no PM's.

As for the install, sit on the roof during install, don't get in the way or spend time B.S.ing with the installers, but watch everything and don't be afraid to ask the lead person a question if something looks fishy. If you see something, say something. That'll beat any workmanship warranty going and only add more Q.C. to the job. If it doesn't, you've got the wrong vendor.

My roofing is completed, brand new flat tiles as of yesterday. I was reviewing our plans one final time and reviewed the Quick Mount Quick Hook for flat tile installation manual. I noticed it shows in bold "requires roofing battens". My original tile roof did not have battens and roofer did not install battens for our new roof. It is the 11th hour before the installation starts on Monday, would this pose any problems when installing the Quick Hook on a flat tile roof with no roofing battens?

I sent an email to my installer and waiting to hear back. Wondering if anyone ever ran across this and what was the outcome solution

Thanks in advance.

[bucdenny]

There are no PM's.

As for the install, sit on the roof during install, don't get in the way or spend time B.S.ing with the installers, but watch everything and don't be afraid to ask the lead person a question if something looks fishy. If you see something, say something. That'll beat any workmanship warranty going and only add more Q.C. to the job. If it doesn't, you've got the wrong vendor.

Just received PTO from SDG&E. System is producing 50 kWh daily, is it good production for 24 panels?

There were so many broken tiles on my roof which was replaced by installer but I had found some hairline cracked tiles underneath the panels which we had installer come back to remove panels and replace tiles. Any suggestions with getting all tiles inspected underneath the panels? I am worried some tiles may have been missed.

[CharlieEscCA]

Just received PTO from SDG&E. System is producing 50 kWh daily, is it good production for 24 panels?

That seem pretty good to me for your 7.8 kW system, I'm getting right around 50 kWh last few days with my 8.04 kW system (that has some shading issues at the start and end of day).

You should consider joining pvOutput and then you can compare to many nearby systems.

[Kingram]

Here is the link to PvOutput :
https://pvoutput.org/help.html
But it is giving a 503 Service Unavailable when you try to register.

[J.P.M.]

Just received PTO from SDG&E. System is producing 50 kWh daily, is it good production for 24 panels?

There were so many broken tiles on my roof which was replaced by installer but I had found some hairline cracked tiles underneath the panels which we had installer come back to remove panels and replace tiles. Any suggestions with getting all tiles inspected underneath the panels? I am worried some tiles may have been missed.

Your production sounds about right, particularly this time of year with a new array that hasn't gone through burn in yet. Over the last 4 cloudless days my 4 1/2 yr. old Sunpower array has produced an average of 6.09 kWh/day per installed STC kW that's about 3% fouled at this time, and including about 3.5% daily loss for late afternoon shading. Azimuth ~195 deg, tilt ~ 19.5deg. zip, 92026.

On inspection under the array: As a practical matter, only if you can get under the array. I suppose you could get a waste water line camera and see something, but Then what ?

That's part of why I suggest sitting on the roof and watch/inspect the work as it's being done.

Stuff will still happen, but being there when the work is being done may add some comfort or confidence after install is complete.

Are you writing that you found more cracked/damaged tiles after PV panels were removed and tiles replaced ?

FWIW, and readers considering PV may note or not: One of several reasons why my array is ~ 10"- 12" off the deck, besides not being a big fan of tile hooks, is so I can get under the array to snoop around. PITA to do, and it doesn't make roof repairs any easier or mostly even possible in a realistic/practical sense, but as long as I don't pork out, possible. Just sayin'.

[bucdenny]

Your production sounds about right, particularly this time of year with a new array that hasn't gone through burn in yet. Over the last 4 cloudless days my 4 1/2 yr. old Sunpower array has produced an average of 6.09 kWh/day per installed STC kW that's about 3% fouled at this time, and including about 3.5% daily loss for late afternoon shading. Azimuth ~195 deg, tilt ~ 19.5deg. zip, 92026.

On inspection under the array: As a practical matter, only if you can get under the array. I suppose you could get a waste water line camera and see something, but Then what ?

That's part of why I suggest sitting on the roof and watch/inspect the work as it's being done.

Stuff will still happen, but being there when the work is being done may add some comfort or confidence after install is complete.

Are you writing that you found more cracked/damaged tiles after PV panels were removed and tiles replaced ?

FWIW, and readers considering PV may note or not: One of several reasons why my array is ~ 10"- 12" off the deck, besides not being a big fan of tile hooks, is so I can get under the array to snoop around. PITA to do, and it doesn't make roof repairs any easier or mostly even possible in a realistic/practical sense, but as long as I don't pork out, possible. Just sayin'.

During the install I did watch and help inspect. Since we had brand new flat tiles installed prior to the solar install, during the solar install they broke over 50 tiles. We helped locate and replace the ones they didn't catch which we found a few under the array. Tiles break and it is hard to catch with sunny bright sky because most of them broke where the tiles overlap. Installer had no problem replacing them, but it is one of those what ifs they didn't catch ones under the array.

I did buy Mr Long Arm with 10 meter snake camera. I am hoping to fine a more efficient way other than remove the panels.

[J.P.M.]

During the install I did watch and help inspect. Since we had brand new flat tiles installed prior to the solar install, during the solar install they broke over 50 tiles. We helped locate and replace the ones they didn't catch which we found a few under the array. Tiles break and it is hard to catch with sunny bright sky because most of them broke where the tiles overlap. Installer had no problem replacing them, but it is one of those what ifs they didn't catch ones under the array.

I did buy Mr Long Arm with 10 meter snake camera. I am hoping to fine a more efficient way other than remove the panels.

Understood. Due diligence or more as you've done will pay dividends if for nothing more than sleep at night when it rains.

As for alternates or methods to replacing tiles/service under an array, I've brainstormed several/lots of possible methods and haven't come up with a reasonably easy and workable method yet.

Poor expedient is alum. flashing over a cracked tile wedged between the

One way to look at dealing with leak protection it is to find a method to keep water away from the underside of the array and all the roof above it in the first place. As a practical matter, that probably involves a complete 2d roof under the array and roof above the array.

I believe that as time goes on, roof problems/leaks under arrays will begin to pop up as arrays and roofs get older. Then the finger pointing will begin. I think things like this are a ticking bomb.

Still no guarantee of someone being in business, but using established local folks up front might increase the odds of a good job, or at least increase the odds of someone at least showing up if service is required.