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**SunEagle** · 10-31-2017, 09:00 AM

Well the first thing I see is that you have a 1100Ah battery system and only 60amps of charging, which calculates to a very slow C/18 charge rate.

Next issue is that wiring 10 batteries in parallel will pretty much guarantee they will never charge or discharge equally.

It does seem your CC is not performing to full but that may be an issue due to the wiring or the amount of "good" sunlight you get.

**sensij** · 10-31-2017, 09:46 AM

What is the evidence that the batteries are not fully charging up? Do you have a hydrometer? Have you ever run an Equalize cycle?

**Sunking** · 10-31-2017, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by tigger24

1 x Morning star MPPT 60 (12v upto 80 watts)

Wrong, 800 watts @ 12 volts, 1600 watts @ 24 volts, and 3200 watts @ 48 volts.

Originally posted by tigger24

10 x 110Ah leisure batteries (FLA's) cheap ones

Huge mistake, 10 parallel strings. Never ever parallel batteries. Good thing they were cheap, because they are over due to be replaced.

Originally posted by tigger24

My electric consumption is 150 watts per 24 hr.

BS complete nonsense. This is the main reason you are having problems because youi do not understand anything about energy.

Watt is a unit if power or the RATE and which power is consumed.
Watt Hours is energy consumed or delivered. It takes 20 years of higher education in the USA to understand Watt Hours, a 5th grade education in any other country. The formula is extremely complex Watt Hours = Watts x Hours

Told you ir was difficult yankees. Not many college grads can figure it out. What I think you meant and the crux of your problem is you you burn 150 watts x 24 hours per day = 3600 watt hours or 3.6 Kwh. About 40 cents worth of electricity per day. OK with that said, you do not have near enough panel wattage to support 3600 watt hours in a day. You would need 2000 to 3000 watts of panels, and running on a 48 volt 400 AH battery weighing in @ 1000 pounds

OTOH if you only use 150 watt hours in a day (24 hours), you only need a 100 to 200 watt panel, and a 20 amp controller. If that is the case nothing is wrong, working perfectly, and you pissed away a lot of money for nothing.

Last thing is you cannot charge a Charged Up Battery. I do not care if you have a 1,000,000 watt panel and a 1000 amp controller. If the battery is charged, it will not take current.

**NEOH** · 10-31-2017, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by tigger24

I have turned off all of my external supply and the MPPT only required 70 watts, put out 5 Amps and kept the voltage at 14.6
What i dont understand is, if the MPPT can produce upto 60 Amps, why can it not deliver this to the batteries?????

Maybe, the Battery Bank will only accept 5 amps at 14.6 Volts, because the Battery Bank is partially charged?
What makes you think the charge controller must push 60 amps into the Battery Bank at 14.6 Volts
You need to read and learn about Bulk Charge vs Absorb Charge vs Float Charge vs Equalize Charge.

Also, your PV Array points in 3 different directions = 2 x SE, 2 x Directly at sun and 2 x SW.
This does increase PV "time" to recharge battery bank
but will limit MAX PV power at any given time to way less than 1,500 Watts = 6 x 250 Watts
more like < 1,000 watts

Originally posted by tigger24

While i sort of understand that the voltage cant go above the 14.6volt
I dont understand why the batteries dont charge up???
Help, advice, assistance required as its all a bit of black magic to me!!

Are all 10 batteries bubbling at 14.6 Volts at 5 amps?
Bubbling for one hour would be a good indication of a Full Charge

Why not 14.8 Volts?

Is your Charge Controller in Bulk Mode or Absorb Mode?

3,600 Watt-Hours = 150 watts x 24 hours = Consumption
4,000 Watt-Hours = 5 Hours Equiv Sun x 4 Panels x 250 Watts x 80% = Generation (maybe way less?)

I used 4 panels total = ( 2 Stationary Total = 2 at SE and 2 at SW orientation ) plus 2 at Tracking

Generation is barely exceeding consumption on a good solar day.

**tigger24** · 10-31-2017, 05:22 PM

Well thank you, I think.
Starting from the top with Suneagle, I was under the impression that 1100 ah at 50% dod 650 would = 10% charge rate at 60 amp. Wrong I geuss.
While yes they are in parallel they are wired in pairs with the - of one being linked to the - of the second with the supply from the cc feeding the first, then the + linking the two then being feed from cc to the second battery. I have used 35mm cable measured out all the same length to try to balance out the battery bank, not perfect I know but I thought close.

sensij Thanks, the morningstar has auto equalise every 30 days, I do have a hydrometer but the batteries are totally sealed and I cant get to the cells. The lights on the morningstar give an indication of state of charge and they indicate no more then 60-80 charge, also I dont get any more then 2 hours after the sun goes down of use from them before the v drops to dod 12.1v.

Sunking, yes I missed a 0 off of the 80 to make 800, a typo. You also have a few in your polite comments.

Huge mistake, 10 parallel strings. wrong 5 strings, still not the best.
I dont think my biggest problem is I dont know anything about energy, it might be a factor thou.
If I use on average 150w per hour over a 24hr time frame, from my array, I would think that that is 150wh that I require. Therefore a system ie mppt that can supply up to 800wph from max of 1500w of pannels over an 10 hour period (summer) should provide up to 8000w if every thing is working correctly. Is that right in theory. Again on that basis 3600w per 24 of usage should be achievable. I am not in the position to go to a 48v system although working on that for long term, and will, as I said at the beginning I am changing to a 24v system but would like to get closer to working correctly at 12v first.

neoh the batteries I believe are not charged on the basis that if I put a load on them the voltage drops . 14.6v is the voltage that the cc supplies to flas on a pre set program. The cc is in absorb mode, unless there are clouds or I increase the load. As I increase the load I can watch the w and amps on the cc increase, so I can only assume that the both the panels and the cc are matching themselves, and that given that the panels are in a horseshoe layout, pv is going through to the cc, from the morning ( at this time of year 9am ) my cc is in absorb by 10am and stays there till 6pm. I cannot tell if the batteries are bubbling as the batteries are totally sealed, so I can only go by what the cc tells me. Generation is exceeding consumption, and generation meets consumption and if consumption increases it will also increase up to the max of the cc limited to 12v parameter, 800w,60 amp.

In order to try something different and to test the above comments, today I disconnected 4 of my batteries from the bank. This lowered the w and apms from the cc, but reading above thought it might charge up the remaining bank higher, but no. It did not charge the bank any more, just wasted w from the panels that wernt taken, and an overall shorter after sun life of the bank.

While I thank you all for your comments, I can see why I was warned not to turn to forums for advise. It would appear there is no advise just a good kicking and a lecture on being stupid and how to suck eggs yankiee style by some of the well posted amongst you. All I was hoping for was some advise in how to try to achieve a simple low w system with out spending large sums. I have been off grid for 5 years with this system and not able to have mains power due to location and not by choice. I was hoping to improve the system changing to 24v.

**NEOH** · 10-31-2017, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by tigger24

Well thank you, I think.
Starting from the top with Suneagle, I was under the impression that 1100 ah at 50% dod 650 would = 10% charge rate at 60 amp. Wrong I geuss.
While yes they are in parallel they are wired in pairs with the - of one being linked to the - of the second with the supply from the cc feeding the first, then the + linking the two then being feed from cc to the second battery. I have used 35mm cable measured out all the same length to try to balance out the battery bank, not perfect I know but I thought close.

sensij Thanks, the morningstar has auto equalise every 30 days, I do have a hydrometer but the batteries are totally sealed and I cant get to the cells. The lights on the morningstar give an indication of state of charge and they indicate no more then 60-80 charge, also I dont get any more then 2 hours after the sun goes down of use from them before the v drops to dod 12.1v.

Sunking, yes I missed a 0 off of the 80 to make 800, a typo. You also have a few in your polite comments.

Huge mistake, 10 parallel strings. wrong 5 strings, still not the best.
I dont think my biggest problem is I dont know anything about energy, it might be a factor thou.
If I use on average 150w per hour over a 24hr time frame, from my array, I would think that that is 150wh that I require. Therefore a system ie mppt that can supply up to 800wph from max of 1500w of pannels over an 10 hour period (summer) should provide up to 8000w if every thing is working correctly. Is that right in theory. Again on that basis 3600w per 24 of usage should be achievable. I am not in the position to go to a 48v system although working on that for long term, and will, as I said at the beginning I am changing to a 24v system but would like to get closer to working correctly at 12v first.

neoh the batteries I believe are not charged on the basis that if I put a load on them the voltage drops . 14.6v is the voltage that the cc supplies to flas on a pre set program. The cc is in absorb mode, unless there are clouds or I increase the load. As I increase the load I can watch the w and amps on the cc increase, so I can only assume that the both the panels and the cc are matching themselves, and that given that the panels are in a horseshoe layout, pv is going through to the cc, from the morning ( at this time of year 9am ) my cc is in absorb by 10am and stays there till 6pm. I cannot tell if the batteries are bubbling as the batteries are totally sealed, so I can only go by what the cc tells me. Generation is exceeding consumption, and generation meets consumption and if consumption increases it will also increase up to the max of the cc limited to 12v parameter, 800w,60 amp.

In order to try something different and to test the above comments, today I disconnected 4 of my batteries from the bank. This lowered the w and apms from the cc, but reading above thought it might charge up the remaining bank higher, but no. It did not charge the bank any more, just wasted w from the panels that wernt taken, and an overall shorter after sun life of the bank.

While I thank you all for your comments, I can see why I was warned not to turn to forums for advise. It would appear there is no advise just a good kicking and a lecture on being stupid and how to suck eggs yankiee style by some of the well posted amongst you. All I was hoping for was some advise in how to try to achieve a simple low w system with out spending large sums. I have been off grid for 5 years with this system and not able to have mains power due to location and not by choice. I was hoping to improve the system changing to 24v.

If your batteries are not charging fast enough, then raise the Voltage from 14.6 to 14.8 Volts.
Is that clear enough for you?
And I do not care what the "pre-set" value is.
As if, the company that built your Charge Controller knows exactly which Brand Battery you are using.
You have never told us which brand of "cheap leisure" SLA you actually have - details, details, details.

You did not answer my simple question ...
Are all 10 batteries bubbling at 14.6 Volts at 5 amps?
A simple "yes" or "no" answer, will do.
Can you do that?
If the answer is no, then raise the voltage to get more amps into the batteries, immediately.
If your batteries are getting sulfated then you need to do something about that, immediately.

You say when you put a load on your batteries the voltage drops.
Hey, no kidding?
All batteries do that.
Where are the details about the size of the load and the drop in voltage - details, details, details.

As I stated before, you need to learn about Bulk Charge, Absorb Charge, Float Charge & Equalize Charge.
This is not "black magic", as you have previously stated, it is your lack of knowledge regarding SLA batteries.

When was the last time you equalized your batteries and exactly how did you do it - details, details, details.

Yes, we get it, you have a problem, so why don't you give us some details instead of complaining.
You act like we can read your mind.

You stated:
I was under the impression that 1100 ah at 50% dod 650 would = 10% charge rate at 60 amp.

Most Charge Controllers are not configured to Bulk Charge at a constant 60 Amps, for exactly 10 hours,
and then stop with the Battery Bank at exactly 100% SOC.

**Mike90250** · 11-03-2017, 08:01 PM

if you have sealed

hydrometer but the batteries are totally sealed

batteries, you must follow the battery mfg specs EXACTLY.
And DISABLE the auto EQ. Sealed batteries don't get regular EQ

**AzRoute66** · 11-03-2017, 09:53 PM

Originally posted by tigger24

Well thank you, I think.
Starting from the top with Suneagle, I was under the impression that 1100 ah at 50% dod 650 would = 10% charge rate at 60 amp. Wrong I geuss.

Yes, it is wrong. I would like to correct it but am not sure I understand exactly how.

I dont think my biggest problem is I dont know anything about energy, it might be a factor thou. If I use on average 150w per hour over a 24hr time frame, from my array, I would think that that is 150wh that I require.

If you average 150W per hour over a 24 hour period, you have consumed 150W x 24 hours = 3600 Wh, so you are a factor of 24 off.

Therefore a system ie mppt that can supply up to 800wph from max of 1500w of pannels over an 10 hour period (summer) should provide up to 8000w if every thing is working correctly. Is that right in theory.

No, I still don't get the 800wph, but will say that the length of day (your 10 hours) is never used in a calcuation. What you need is 'insolation', which is measured in sun-hours, and is calculated on your location (mainly latitude) and the panel tilt, orientation, and tracking (if any). If you had your sun-hours number your calculation would be [panel rating] x [sun-hours] x 0.70 on a very good day with an MPPT controller.

I'm sorry, but the rest of it was too hard to read, but I'm sure if you take the time to understand what I wrote above, you will appreciate the opportunity to reword it.

**NEOH** · 11-04-2017, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by Mike90250

if you have sealed batteries, you must follow the battery mfg specs EXACTLY.
And DISABLE the auto EQ. Sealed batteries don't get regular EQ

And yet in message #1 the OP originally stated FLA = Flooded Lead Acid and
then contradicted that statement in message #6 = "totally sealed" and
did not edit the ERROR in message #1.

The truth, will never be known since the OP is gone.

Per the Lifeline Website FAQ ...
Q: Can I Equalize my Lifeline AGM Battery
A: YES. At Lifeline we understand that you cannot always fully recharge every day. As a result you will need to equalize.

There is no such thing as a "regular EQ" since every battery type and every manufacturer have their own unique specifications - ie Max Voltage, Max Time, Max Temperature, etc.

**Mike90250** · 11-04-2017, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by NEOH

........
A: YES. At Lifeline we understand that you cannot always fully recharge every day. As a result you will need to equalize......

they say that so you will push the EQ button, and then buy a new battery. In the fine print the "EQ" is an enhanced Absorb, with strict limits, anything else with sealed cells, you risk venting gas and losing capacity.

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