LG Mono X versus LG Neon 2 - 10% premium

[so_cal_burbs]

I have read many a thread debating cheap panels versus panels with large marketing budgets. I remain a little unclear if there is legitimate engineering facts to believe two panels of different brands/lines, rated the same wattage will output different AC amounts over a 10 year period.

Some of the marketing claims:
-Pre-flashed so no immediate LID
-Rate of degradation is lower than another brand or technology
-Panels that generate power with less light (starting earlier and running later in the day than others)
-Temperature Coefficient differences mean 10% different output in US Southwest. (this is more installer hype than company marketing)

I have an installer that can offer me LG Mono X panels for about 8% less than Neon 2 Panels or Panasonic panels. He is agnostic on what panels to pick. I don't see much value in the long term warranties. I've think that if a panel isn't working to my satisfaction after the first few years of operation the chances of dealing with warranty is very low. Why bother with paying labor, shipping etc... hoping to get a $300 panel replaced. I'll just pay out of pocket-hell maybe just swap it out myself if it comes to that.

Is there a good reason to think a Neon or Panasonic panel is worth an 8% premium over the Mono X? And if the answer is no why does LG carry two lines?

FWIW, my situation is 150 degree azimuth, roof install in San Diego with an 7.8-8.6Kw system.

[sensij]

The Neon 2's generally get more power out of the same footprint as the Mono X, as indicated by the higher STC ratings for panels with equal cell counts. If your roof doesn't have much space, it *might* be worth it to pay the premium. If you aren't space constrained, I would go with the less efficient/less expensive panel.

[J.P.M.]

8% is kind of a high spiff. A couple % maybe, but I doubt you'll get 8 % more energy out of one panel vs. another, or that using one panel will allow an 8 % size reduction of an array.

Sensij and I have arrays with similar orientations that are probably about 20+ miles apart in inland N.C. I have a Sunpower array. He does not. On clear days, our outputs per installed STC kW are very close, some days within a small fraction of 1 % of one another. The same near equality was also the case with his prior array.
Sunpower used to, and still does claim, all kinds of B.S. advantages: "most efficient", "lower temp. coefficient", etc. I've found those claims to be spurious and not verified by anyone who doesn't have skin in the game. And, from what I've measured and verified with respect to Sunpower's efficiency claims, it's a big "so what". It's an area efficiency. A 327 Watt S.P. panel puts out ~ 327/300 as much energy over a year's time as a 300 Watt panel, but does so for about a 15 - 20 % upfront premium/STC Watt. It just does so using less area.

I monitor several arrays in my HOA. A couple are Sunpower. Others are not. A couple are LG. After adjusting for orientation, all produce about the same output per STC kW. FWIW, none jumps out as 8 % greater than the others.

As you seem to wonder and as I strongly believe, most all of the types of hype you mention are simply B.S. meant to help separate the solar ignorant from their assets.

LG carries several lines and like other PV mfgs', have done so for several years, not unlike most mfgs. who have several likes of essentially similar products with no substantive difference beyond some cosmetics, some thrown in options you pay more for on the cheaper versions and bragging rights for paying more. Think Dodge, Desoto and Plymouth. Or, more recently Toyota and Lexus. Same vehicles, just cheaper/more expensive leather or real/fake wood and a few more*/less bells/whistles. As with the vehicles, there will be little if any measureable difference in performance between panels, at least not enough to justify that large a price differential.

Depending on where you are located in San Diego, With a reasonably tilt and not much shade, expect about 1,600 - 1,700 or so kWh/yr. per installed STC kW of PV at a 150 deg. az.

And, with the new SDG & E rates about to take effect for new PV users under schedule DR - SES, expect each installed STC kW of PV to offset about $370/yr. or so of your new electric bill under that tariff, pretty much regardless of the panels you choose.

[inspron]

Is there a good reason to think a Neon or Panasonic panel is worth an 8% premium over the Mono X? And if the answer is no why does LG carry two lines?

FWIW, my situation is 150 degree azimuth, roof install in San Diego with an 7.8-8.6Kw system.

Based on my personal experience and JPM, get the cheapest reputable Tier 1 panels to maximize the actual value of the system. Brand name = high costs not a whole lot of benefit on commodity products such as solar panels. 8% premium is a fair price but it is still a complete waste of money.

Since you are in San Diego like me, check out Sunline Energy, my installer, if your quote isn't below $2.60 a watt. Ask to speak to Matt, the owner, for a quote. They are on Miramar Road. I am "Key" and Sunline is on my parent's roof in Escondido right now installing Hyundai 290W panels.

[so_cal_burbs]

@inspiron, I did contact Matt based on your recommendation earlier this fall. He said the sub-$2.60 deal was short lived based on the deal he got on the panels. He is actually where I got the 8% difference asked about in this thread. He said his distributor gave him a great price on the Mono X. But that was last week. Yesterday when I contacted him asking for a contract to review he said those were now all sold and he is traveling so am waiting to hear back what he can do. I'd love to see photos of your install if you can post them.

I hoping to get some price movement at least from the big guys to boost their October numbers-I told them all to sharpen their pencils and I would sign by the 31st. Am awaiting results.

[J.P.M.]

@inspiron, I did contact Matt based on your recommendation earlier this fall. He said the sub-$2.60 deal was short lived based on the deal he got on the panels. He is actually where I got the 8% difference asked about in this thread. He said his distributor gave him a great price on the Mono X. But that was last week. Yesterday when I contacted him asking for a contract to review he said those were now all sold and he is traveling so am waiting to hear back what he can do. I'd love to see photos of your install if you can post them.

I hoping to get some price movement at least from the big guys to boost their October numbers-I told them all to sharpen their pencils and I would sign by the 31st. Am awaiting results.

Are you buying low buck or most bang for the buck ?

[J.P.M.]

Based on my personal experience and JPM, get the cheapest reputable Tier 1 panels to maximize the actual value of the system. Brand name = high costs not a whole lot of benefit on commodity products such as solar panels. 8% premium is a fair price but it is still a complete waste of money.

Since you are in San Diego like me, check out Sunline Energy, my installer, if your quote isn't below $2.60 a watt. Ask to speak to Matt, the owner, for a quote. They are on Miramar Road. I am "Key" and Sunline is on my parent's roof in Escondido right now installing Hyundai 290W panels.

I don't think I ever suggested getting the "cheapest" panel of quality as that sort of implies first cost, low buck syndrome, which I usually rail against - buy cheap, buy twice, terrible to pay too much, worse to pay too little - that sort of thing.

Spending some extra $ for installation and vendor quality after hard but fair negotiation is another matter. You want nice, you pay nice. In the end, in terms of installation quality, you'll get what you pay for (or less).

What I believe I've been consistent about is that beyond some basic and fit for purpose quality of equipment, equal (electrical) sized PV systems in the same location, orientation and duty that are properly installed will produce pretty close to the same annual output regardless of the panel used for probably as long or longer than the owner will have use of such a system. To the degree that's true, spending extra money for panels beyond some basic quality becomes a waste of money. Panels are a commodity, just like water heaters or garage door openers. PV is an appliance, not a lifestyle.

[inspron]

@inspiron, I did contact Matt based on your recommendation earlier this fall. He said the sub-$2.60 deal was short lived based on the deal he got on the panels. He is actually where I got the 8% difference asked about in this thread. He said his distributor gave him a great price on the Mono X. But that was last week. Yesterday when I contacted him asking for a contract to review he said those were now all sold and he is traveling so am waiting to hear back what he can do. I'd love to see photos of your install if you can post them.

I hoping to get some price movement at least from the big guys to boost their October numbers-I told them all to sharpen their pencils and I would sign by the 31st. Am awaiting results.

FYI, when I contacted with Matt in July, I was specifically only interested in the "value panels" - Chinese Tier 1 suppliers. I work in the manufacturing industry so I understand high-value commodity production well. He gave me exactly what I asked for, Yingli panels. He has long ran out of stock of those. In Aug, I signed my parents house but I had to settle for the more expensive Huyndai panels. Since we are in the middle of the tariff shenanigans, many of the imported supplies dried up fast so its going to be more difficult to achieve low prices from months past.

On the installation quality front, several friends and family members were happy with their installs. Aesthetically speaking, Sunline did a much better job compared to their neighbors' systems (Solarcity and others). For examples, all of the conduits were well placed and painted to match the mounting surfaces.