feedback on this setup and cost

[swpr77]

What are your thoughts for the following setup...

Solar Edge 5kw inverter with Optimizers (optimizer p400)
17-18 Panasonic 330w panels

Currently use about 8500 kw for the year.

about $3.00-3.10 per watt.

[J.P.M.]

Pay as much or more attention to potential installers, their reputation, experience and what else they have to fall back on after PV tanks, as well as your ability and theirs to communicate. Avoid big national outfits as much as Larry with a ladder types. Local, established electrical contractors who've been around 10+ years and sold solar for at least 5+ years are your best bet. Ignore advice from referral whores.

Solar equipment is mostly a commodity beyond some basic quality level.

Buying on first/low buck alone is a fools way to not get most bang for the buck. A quality installer is worth a reasonable but tough and fairly negotiated premium. Get competitive bids from good contractors and keep the pricing to yourself. Revealing/sharing competitive pricing among/between bidders will not get you the most bang for your buck or the lowest possible price.

Also, if a roof install, get your roof inspected/serviced. Real cheap insurance you will not regret.

[DrLumen]

Agree with JPM.

IMO, once you have decided on the installer, as a courtesy, send all the losing bidders the same email with your decision, perhaps why you chose company X along with their various price quotes (and equipment list if there were differences). I do this for 2 reasons. 1) It gets most of them off your back so you don't field as many follow-up calls. 2) If they went to the trouble of coming out, measuring, working up a proposal, I think they, at least, deserve to know where they stand in the market.

Some may come back to cut their price or try to convince you theirs is best. If you have decided against them then you know the reason theirs isn't best. If they can lower their prices then they were initially trying to screw you and they then may want to cut corners after getting the job at the lower price.

Just my $.02

[J.P.M.]

Agree with JPM.

IMO, once you have decided on the installer, as a courtesy, send all the losing bidders the same email with your decision, perhaps why you chose company X along with their various price quotes (and equipment list if there were differences). I do this for 2 reasons. 1) It gets most of them off your back so you don't field as many follow-up calls. 2) If they went to the trouble of coming out, measuring, working up a proposal, I think they, at least, deserve to know where they stand in the market.

Some may come back to cut their price or try to convince you theirs is best. If you have decided against them then you know the reason theirs isn't best. If they can lower their prices then they were initially trying to screw you and they then may want to cut corners after getting the job at the lower price.

Just my $.02

Respectfully, I'd still not reveal prices or equipment. After 10 years or so on the selling side, a couple of things I think I gleaned that are germane here:

- It's not a courtesy. It'll most likely be viewed as an insult and sour grapes. Or, misinterpreted as an invitation to rebid, which is OK, but probably not a class thing to do once a contract has been signed. It'll leave a bad taste in all the vendor's mouths, even the successful bidder.
- They already know what the competition sells. They may have even sold for a competitor last month, or vice versa.
- If they are reasonably sharp at their game, they already know what and where the competition's pricing is and needs to be day/day far more completely than any potential customer will know. What they don't know is what any vendor's particular bid is in any live situation. That information is gold before a sale is closed (and why price matching is a trap for customers to ignorantly fall into and lock in a never lower price), but useless afterward. Interestingly, in CA, what most folks pay, as well as most everything else about a job except the name/address of the owner was,and still is, a matter of public record called the CSI database. Most CA users are clueless about it. Anyway, what the customer actually paid/Watt is most often a function of the customer's product savvy and negotiating skills. Lack of those two things are two of the bigger reasons why many/most folks overpay for residential PV, and also why prices for the same equipment from the same vendor are all over the place. I've got well over 100 examples in my HOA. some neighbors: Same vendor, same equipment. Same/similar roofs. Across the street from one another. One pays 10 % more/Watt. Seen it a lot. Knowledge is power and conversely.
- Some vendors will leave you alone after such a stunt. Others will just as likely see any post mortem/autopsy on their bid and others as an invitation to lower theirs, or a dutch auction. If the customer's goal is most bang for the buck and not necessarily low buck as an end in itself, any rebids that come in, solicited or otherwise will be counterproductive to such a goal. Equipment and probably more importantly, installation quality will go down along with price. Pay your money, take your choice. I'd not want to invite quality issues on my roof for the next 20 years. Tough but fair negotiation and customer diligence is better way to most bang for the buck.

[DrLumen]

I'm not sure in your part of the country but, around here, it is expected as part of a closed bid process. While I can't speak specifically to solar, I have done slews of construction bidding from parking lot striping to multi-million dollar retail build-outs. Some contractors get a case of sour grapes and beg and prod and whine and, sometimes, try to bribe to get the job. But, most thank me for the opportunity to bid, ask me to keep them in mind for our next job and move on. I guess it ultimately depends on the professionalism of the contractor. Lowest Cost Ladder Larry may not understand and may get offended but then I really don't care about them.

YMMV

[foo1bar]

I'm not sure in your part of the country but, around here, it is expected as part of a closed bid process

Residential generally isn't a "closed bid process"
At least not at the single-homeowner level.

Commercial building (ie. parking lot striping or million dollar retail buildouts) is very very different from Joe Homeowner is looking to add solar to his house.

Telling the potential contractors (or more likely salesmen) where they landed is a choice - it has it's pluses and minuses. And I think you and JPM have covered those.


for the OP:

17 * 330W = 5610W DC

A> do you have room on your roof for 17 modules?
B> what orientation and roof angle will they be
C> How much shading?
D> What do you get when you put in a 5.6kW array into pvwatts (nrel . gov) - using your location, your orientation/angle, etc.
Is it about 8500kwh over the year?
E> What is YOUR situation w.r.t. net metering? Some places you get basically kwh for kwh on an anual basis. Others you get less credit for what you produce vs. what you consume. And others you get MORE $ for kwh that you produce (because it's during peak consumption or other things) and the $ you pay for the kwh you consume is less.
F> $3/W is probably reasonable cost in many places. But it really depends on where you are. (

Also - learn the difference between kw and kwh AND be careful in how you use them.

[J.P.M.]

Residential generally isn't a "closed bid process"
At least not at the single-homeowner level.

Commercial building (ie. parking lot striping or million dollar retail buildouts) is very very different from Joe Homeowner is looking to add solar to his house.

Telling the potential contractors (or more likely salesmen) where they landed is a choice - it has it's pluses and minuses. And I think you and JPM have covered those.


for the OP:

17 * 330W = 5610W DC

A> do you have room on your roof for 17 modules?
B> what orientation and roof angle will they be
C> How much shading?
D> What do you get when you put in a 5.6kW array into pvwatts (nrel . gov) - using your location, your orientation/angle, etc.
Is it about 8500kwh over the year?
E> What is YOUR situation w.r.t. net metering? Some places you get basically kwh for kwh on an anual basis. Others you get less credit for what you produce vs. what you consume. And others you get MORE $ for kwh that you produce (because it's during peak consumption or other things) and the $ you pay for the kwh you consume is less.
F> $3/W is probably reasonable cost in many places. But it really depends on where you are. (

Also - learn the difference between kw and kwh AND be careful in how you use them.

All good points IMO, but I'd still keep prices close to the vest.

Getting and reading the Solar for Dummies book is always a good idea for those looking at PV but unfamiliar with the plusses/minuses/requirements and will speak to most of the above points and many more.