Why does New England have the best solar incetives?

[BFW577]

We are one of the clouldiest areas in the US with the some of the most expensive electricity in the nation but the incentives here are crazy. Just curious what others think.

Rhode Island is now offering a $1 watt upfront incentive and paying .25 cents a kwh sent back to grid locked in for the next 20 years. The payback there is insane at like 3-4 years.

http://commerceri.com/finance-busine...cale-projects/

http://programs.dsireusa.org/system/program/detail/5523

[organic farmer]

There is a strong effort here to lobby for programs and subsidies. Thursday I attended an event in Bangor http://www.bangormaine.gov/gbs They had an Open House to show off a house with newly installed solar panels.

I was interested in talking with the crowd of solar aficionados that showed up. I was the only person in attendance who had driven there in a solar powered vehicle.

I am off-grid with solar power, even for me the 'pay-back' period is not very long. Somewhere between 7 and 10 years.

[NEOH]

Campaign Donations cause legislators to pass very odd laws and regulations.
The law is designed to manipulate the population into doing something that would otherwise not make financial sense for the buyer.

[J.P.M.]

Because the sun shines less making PV less cost effective. Or, looked at another way, the fuel costs more.

Some additional gov. largess is needed to attain some fiscal equity with places where more solar availability makes it more cost effective to use PV.

I'd suggest most, or at least a lot of the push comes from the solar industry, with no small additional push from those portions of the more well heeled and also the treehugging and mostly solar ignorant that live in cloudy and/or more northerly areas who do a much harm to real and sane R.E. progress as the solar naysayers.

[J.P.M.]

There is a strong effort here to lobby for programs and subsidies. Thursday I attended an event in Bangor http://www.bangormaine.gov/gbs They had an Open House to show off a house with newly installed solar panels.

I was interested in talking with the crowd of solar aficionados that showed up. I was the only person in attendance who had driven there in a solar powered vehicle.

I am off-grid with solar power, even for me the 'pay-back' period is not very long. Somewhere between 7 and 10 years.

Back in the day, it took me a couple of events such as you write about to notice that very often, most of the folks who showed up were driving big vehicles, one or two persons to a vehicle who usually knew one another, were white, affluent and, while not trying to paint everyone with the same brush here, seemed to want to let the world know that their crap somehow didn't smell.

Same crowd usually showed up for environmental/save the planet rallies which, if held as usual - way out in the boonies (Held out there, no doubt, to protect the burgeoning cities from further environmental insult) - still had folks exhibiting their true genuine concern for the environment by showing up in vehicles like F-250's, SUV land yachts and hummers, again one or two persons to a vehicle. What ignorant hypocrisy. Go figure.

While talking to such folks, again not trying to paint everyone with the same brush, they generally seemed very adept at repeating what they want to believe with, IMO, an overabundance of ignorant and misinformed hubris. Generally, a bunch of arrogant, clueless buttheads easily talked into crap by shysters using their ignorance and hubris against them.

Just the kind of folks who want, but probably wouldn't need help to pay for their usually unneeded and cost ineffective (PV) toys, made all the more ironic when you consider those (PV) toys are usually about the least cost effective way to cut back on what are probably wasteful and profligate electric bills in the first place.

Rant mode off.

Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

[PNPmacnab]

I think it is a mental attitude. I live in the Midwest and the Northeast. As a comparison, in the Midwest trash is just #&%*%$ trash. In the Northeast there is extreme recycling and that goes for household as well as yard waste. My small town has yard waste composting the size of two football fields and most of that is paved. Ground compost is free to residents. At my Midwest home they have the whole county yard waste recycling. You load it into a garbage truck at the site. I asked the operator how many times he has to empty the truck in a day. Said it never gets full and that operates only two days a week. My other town operates five days a week and it is a constant stream of cars. The Midwest is just regressive.

[peakbagger]

New England voluntarily adopted the regional greenhouse gas initiative (REGGI). One of the ways of capping CO2 emissions is switching to renewables. REGGI effectively taxes high carbon power and the money is returned to the states to spend on energy initiatives. If the US had gone through with the Clean Power Plan, New England would have had to do very little to meet the requirements. Other areas of the US with low renewables and high coal generation would effectively had to adopt what New England is already doing. The major downside to the voluntary REGGi is that power bills in New England are expensive so manufacturing is heading to regions with cheaper power who ignore climate impact.

It also probably make a big difference that New England is downwind of a lot of Midwest Coal generation. A large amount of the regions air pollution comes from the Midwest making southern New England perpetually in low air quality. The region cant do much about the Midwest pollution but they can minimize local pollution by using renewables.

Incidentally there s quite close correlation between areas that support the Trump administration and the areas that would have been most affected by the clean power plan.

[Sunking]

Because you live in a communist state and force your neighbors to pay for most of it.

[Andygt02]

Because MA understands that switching to a RE is smarter than burning FF every way you look at it.

[J.P.M.]

Because you live in a communist state and force your neighbors to pay for most of it.

I don't know if it's as much commies as business/politics as commonly practiced. Politicians/political hacks of any/all stripes respond to money from those willing to further their agenda. Some/a lot of it may be regional/local and it's called responding to voter demand(s).

I pay for things like public transit and public elementary education without what I call choice, but what is really no more than my, and probably too many other people's laziness ad apathy to get involved and work to change the system. If my neighbors are forcing me to pay for such things, then I'm at least complicit by rolling over and painting a target on my butt from my lethargy at letting them have their way without putting up a counter argument.

I also subsidize uncontrolled breeding through the fed. income tax system, a lot of it by people who I suspect wouldn't be allowed to have children if a test similar in purpose to a driving test were required before breeding. Utter that logic and get accused to supporting Eugenics. Again, my (and other's) choice to accept what I may not agree with because it's easier than getting involved.

One way we avoid commie takeover (or takeover by other absolutist and minority opinion whack jobs - take your choice), is by getting informed from multiple sources of all persuasions, getting involved in the public discourse and then voting. Since something like ~ 25 % or so of the registered voters in the U.S. elected the current president, looks to me like that method is not being practiced and if it is, it ain't working. Maybe too much of the information is coming from MSNBC left, or Dumfux News on the right.

I hate commies, but I don't put the blame for what's become our society's decline on other than where I see its origin, and it ain't commies. I look in the mirror.

[SunEagle]

Because MA understands that switching to a RE is smarter than burning FF every way you look at it.

And yet it seems a lot of the people of MA don't want off shore or on shore wind turbines so how do you expect to keep the lights on if you only have solar for 40% of the time you need electricity.

If MA is really serious with reducing FF and increasing RE then they would be parking their ICE engine cars and building a lot more wind turbine or finding ways to use stored hydro because you won't be able to have electricity with only solar and batteries.

[reader2580]

Back in the day, it took me a couple of events such as you write about to notice that very often, most of the folks who showed up were driving big vehicles, one or two persons to a vehicle who usually knew one another, were white, affluent and, while not trying to paint everyone with the same brush here, seemed to want to let the world know that their crap somehow didn't smell.

Same crowd usually showed up for environmental/save the planet rallies which, if held as usual - way out in the boonies (Held out there, no doubt, to protect the burgeoning cities from further environmental insult) - still had folks exhibiting their true genuine concern for the environment by showing up in vehicles like F-250's, SUV land yachts and hummers, again one or two persons to a vehicle. What ignorant hypocrisy. Go figure.

Do you really expect people to car pool to these meetings/events?

[J.P.M.]

Do you really expect people to car pool to these meetings/events?

Why not, and maybe put their actions where their mouths are. or, maybe they're so centered on their own life and self importance that the thought of actually saving energy on a personal basis doesn't occur that often. Or, as an alternative, the organizers of R.E. fairs, etc., (marketing events and lead generators really) might consider holding events where possible on/near a public transit line. Oh, I forgot, treehuggers and the "you could just do this and all our problems are solved" crowd don't associate with the great unwashed masses. My bad. Forget I mentioned it.

[Andygt02]

And yet it seems a lot of the people of MA don't want off shore or on shore wind turbines so how do you expect to keep the lights on if you only have solar for 40% of the time you need electricity.

If MA is really serious with reducing FF and increasing RE then they would be parking their ICE engine cars and building a lot more wind turbine or finding ways to use stored hydro because you won't be able to have electricity with only solar and batteries.

Are you referring to Cape Wind? That was more of a NIMBY problem with a rich and politically well-connected group with ties to both sides of the aisle. The Kennedy's killed it as much as the Kochs.

I don't have a problem with wind. MA is dense - finding cheap locations onshore to build a win farm isn't easy, but we absolutely should be tapping our offshore wind potential.

[SunEagle]

Are you referring to Cape Wind? That was more of a NIMBY problem with a rich and politically well-connected group with ties to both sides of the aisle. The Kennedy's killed it as much as the Kochs.

I don't have a problem with wind. MA is dense - finding cheap locations onshore to build a win farm isn't easy, but we absolutely should be tapping our offshore wind potential.

Wind turbine should be built where it is both safe and efficient to tap the energy and convert it to electricity. I would expect off shore to be a better location but even those proposals have been pushed back by a lot of MA residents because of the attitude of NOT IN MY BACKYARD.

I say that if "green" energy or reducing FF usage is a major goal for MA then the people should show a little more personal endeavors like parking their ICE vehicles and using as little electricity as that can at night when the sun is not shining. Since I don't see them doing this I would say they are playing lip service to the green cause because it seems like the glorified thing to do.

Simple answer for me is that if If they fear Fossil Fuels then they need to stop using it.