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  • SDG&E - Choosing rate plan for new install

    Hello!

    While waiting for PTO, I've been researching how to determine what the best rate plan to use would be. There's a few options:

    Stay on tiered rate. I believe this option is available for 5 years post PTO.
    Switch to current TOU.
    Switch to EV TOU/2 (if EV is acquired, planned for later)
    Switch to new proposed TOU rates. These are described in this post.

    Can anyone suggest any tools such as websites or Excel spreadsheets that can help in determining the most cost effective rate plan?

    Specific to SDG&E - Can one switch in-between grandfathered plans during that five years? i.e. if a new TOU plan is in effect (inevitable), can I switch to that TOU plan next year since I had PTO this year or does one have to be on the plan before it goes away?

    Once I'm up and generating, perhaps it will be easier to determine, but for now I'm a bit lost.

    thanks!

  • #2
    Lots of years ago, I found the best option for me was to dig into the SDG & E tariff structure and all that went into it, take the bull by the tail, face the situation squarely, and do my own rate comparison.

    No one else is in my situation - or yours. A lot of folks have done/attempted the same with respect to rates. While not disparaging those efforts in the least, I've found most of them fall very short, and those that come close do not apply to my situation - and I'd hazard a guess - probably not yours. There is someone in San Diego who's published such a spreadsheet. Looks great. Not close. NREL's SAM modeling program is quite sophisticated and not for the novice or feint of heart. The rate/bill estimator it uses is not complete and also not up to date.

    Seems to me and My opinion only, most folks who attempt spreadsheet comparisons and bill estimates do not understand the complexities and, from what I've seen are unaware of how seemingly small assumptions and simplification can have cascading and larger effects than anticipated or assumed. Bottom line : GIGO.

    For a lot of reasons, I found it easier in the long run and also as a learning experience to do my own. I'm sure my stuff has bugs in it just like others' stuff, but for the tariff I'm on, provided I keep the spreadsheet up to date, it gets me to the penny. I'm pretty confident of the rest of my rate/tariff stuff as well, but I'm always checking.

    If your system design calls for overgeneration, and you do not have enough of a use history to be able to get a decent SWAG on your own time of use patterns, you may be better off staying on tiered rates until you get a better handle on your use patterns. Often, but not always, folks find that, for identical usage and use patterns, T.O.U. will result in a lower overall bill, particularly when the residence is mostly empty during a working day, and conservation measures such as set back thermostats and time shifting of tasks is employed. But keep an eye on it, as that's not a guarantee, and rates are always changing.

    That rates change is a given. Designing and sizing a system based on current rates and tariff structures and then crying foul when rates and tariffs change is the errand of a fool. Unfortunately no one, including SDG & E or the CA PUC can tell you, I, or anyone else where rates and tariff structures will be in the future. Fact of life. Curse the wind.

    Spreadsheets can be done that accurately reflect current tariffs. Once you have real understanding and familiarity with how SDG & E bills its residential customers, you'll get an appreciation of why I write that you're better off doing your own due to the multitude of factors that apply to you, and just as many or more that do not apply to you.

    The worst part of the exercise for me, FWIW, was deciphering the tariffs and also rooting around SDG & E and other websites trying to figure out how things were defined and how they interacted w/ one another. SDG & E seems to be or feel under no obligation to make the understanding of their tariffs anything more enjoyable than getting a root canal.

    One way of looking at T.O.U that I've found to be helpful to me is to treat PV electrical production completely separate from my electricity use. That is, treat I the PV system not only as a production facility, but also as a revenue generator that offsets usage. To do that, I take the system hourly production, either actual or modeled, and multiply that hourly production by the hourly NEM rate from the appropriate T.O.U. tariff (or tiered tariff). Sum over any period of my choice and subtract that total from what I would be billed for that same period. Or, use the revenue totals generated by different tariffs as a comparison. Or to compare systems of different sizes on the same tariff, Or, ...?? Doing it as a revenue generator also makes it easier to keep the rates for NEM generation separate form what I'm billed. Even though it's called "Net", it ain't equal. That's one of the nasty little secrets you'll find when you dig into the rates/tariff structure.

    With a bit of self education, you may find the results to be worth the effort.

    Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by NateHornblower View Post
      Hello!

      While waiting for PTO, I've been researching how to determine what the best rate plan to use would be. There's a few options:

      Stay on tiered rate. I believe this option is available for 5 years post PTO.
      Switch to current TOU.
      Switch to EV TOU/2 (if EV is acquired, planned for later)
      Switch to new proposed TOU rates. These are described in this post.

      Can anyone suggest any tools such as websites or Excel spreadsheets that can help in determining the most cost effective rate plan?

      Specific to SDG&E - Can one switch in-between grandfathered plans during that five years? i.e. if a new TOU plan is in effect (inevitable), can I switch to that TOU plan next year since I had PTO this year or does one have to be on the plan before it goes away?

      Once I'm up and generating, perhaps it will be easier to determine, but for now I'm a bit lost.

      thanks!
      As part of the shift to default TOU rates, the utilities have an obligation to develop bill comparison tools to help their customers decide between plans. I haven't seen anything from SDG&E yet that does this effectively, but it should exist someday. In the meantime, I built spreadsheets a couple years ago for the rates as they existed at that time. I can share one, if you'd like, but they aren't really built for use without understanding, so I'm cautious about sharing them too readily.

      The 5 year grandfathering applies only to whatever TOU plan you happen to be on. Once you leave a plan that is open only to "grandfathered" customers, I do not think you would be able to switch back. For plans that continue to be open, you can switch between them, restricted to one change per year, I think. Also, there may be some degree of protection if you make a bad switch, but again, I'd read the fine print for the specific tariffs you are looking at to see all the terms and conditions.

      If your daytime consumption is low, DR-SES is likely to be favorable for you.
      CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

      Comment


      • #4
        You have to figure it out in terms of what works best for you -- but the way I looked at it (and I'm an SDG&E customer just approaching the end of my first month since receiving my PTO) if you are a net exporter of power to the grid in the summer from 11 am to 6 pm, then you want to be on TOU, and you want to sign up on it by July 1 as that locks you into the TOU peak of 11 am to 6 pm for five years.

        8.6 kWp roof (SE 7600 and 28 panels)

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I've been digging in the various rates and until I start generating, it's hard to see what'll work. My guess is the current TOU may be the most beneficial. I do work from home mostly, however don't use much power other than the laptop. My roof didn't facilitate many south-ish facing panels but I do have a large west-ish facing array that I anticipate will do well in the afternoon.

          I will be over generating until the EV arrives and TOU should benefit EV charging vs. tiered rate. Due to over generation, I'm not clear if I'd ever get out of tier 1 for the month. Hopefully PTO comes soon!

          Thanks again.

          Comment


          • #6
            Good luck! If you have a SolarEdge or Enphase system, please consider joining Team San Diego on PVOutput.org to share your data.
            CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by NateHornblower View Post
              Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I've been digging in the various rates and until I start generating, it's hard to see what'll work. My guess is the current TOU may be the most beneficial. I do work from home mostly, however don't use much power other than the laptop. My roof didn't facilitate many south-ish facing panels but I do have a large west-ish facing array that I anticipate will do well in the afternoon.

              I will be over generating until the EV arrives and TOU should benefit EV charging vs. tiered rate. Due to over generation, I'm not clear if I'd ever get out of tier 1 for the month. Hopefully PTO comes soon!

              Thanks again.
              Best way is you gotta' get familiar w/ the tariffs, get familiar with your usage and run the spreadsheets. Until then, you're right - it's a guess.

              SDG & E has your usage in 15 min. increments for about the last 23 months. That can be very useful since it is history before solar PV. Download it and save it.

              How much energy do you use and how much of that is tier one billable ?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by sensij View Post
                Good luck! If you have a SolarEdge or Enphase system, please consider joining Team San Diego on PVOutput.org to share your data.
                Wil do for sure!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

                  Best way is you gotta' get familiar w/ the tariffs, get familiar with your usage and run the spreadsheets. Until then, you're right - it's a guess.

                  SDG & E has your usage in 15 min. increments for about the last 23 months. That can be very useful since it is history before solar PV. Download it and save it.

                  How much energy do you use and how much of that is tier one billable ?
                  I didn't know about the 15m interval history report. I'll dig around in the My Energy area to find it.

                  Lowest month was 581kWh and highest 888kWh. Baseline is ~276 or so.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by NateHornblower View Post

                    I didn't know about the 15m interval history report. I'll dig around in the My Energy area to find it.

                    Lowest month was 581kWh and highest 888kWh. Baseline is ~276 or so.
                    It was a bit obscure for me to find, but useful. One of the ways that SDG & E doesn't volunteer information and makes things a PITA at times.

                    The basic monthly allowance is f(your area--->>>, coast, inland, mountain or desert, whether or not you are all electric, the season, number of billing days per billing period). It will change every month as will the # of billing days which, will probably not coincide with the 1st of the month, and will be between 27 and 32 days with a statistically small but identifiable higher probability of longer billing periods in the summer as a slight SDG& E revenue enhancer. Part of the particulars you'll find out about when you dig into the tariffs.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks, J.P.M. I was wondering why it fluctuated a bit.

                      I got an email this AM from SDGE giving PTO. I was watching the meter and item #10 shows kWh usage but I was unable to find out for what time period it is for in any SDG&E documentation. I was guessing this was for the billing period but it seemed very low @ 174 three weeks into the billing period and very high for a day. I looked in my energy reports later and I found this:
                      Screen Shot 2017-05-24 at 9.17.51 PM.png

                      Below the graph it stated monthly usage was 165 kWh. Looks like there was some kind of issue with the meter reporting in to SDG&E for some time.

                      Does anyone know of item #10 on the smart meter is indeed billing period kWh usage?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by NateHornblower View Post
                        Thanks, J.P.M. I was wondering why it fluctuated a bit.

                        I got an email this AM from SDGE giving PTO. I was watching the meter and item #10 shows kWh usage but I was unable to find out for what time period it is for in any SDG&E documentation. I was guessing this was for the billing period but it seemed very low @ 174 three weeks into the billing period and very high for a day. I looked in my energy reports later and I found this:
                        Screen Shot 2017-05-24 at 9.17.51 PM.png


                        Below the graph it stated monthly usage was 165 kWh. Looks like there was some kind of issue with the meter reporting in to SDG&E for some time.

                        Does anyone know of item #10 on the smart meter is indeed billing period kWh usage?
                        I'd give them a call. In spite of their printed/posted stuff being difficult, I've found their phone help to be pretty good as long as they're treated professionally and respectfully.

                        Something similar to your experience happened to me before PTO (10/17/13). SDG & E replaced my meter 09/13/13. The meter reset itself 09/21/13. I called SDG & E 09/21/13 and it got squared away. I never got an explanation and since it didn't affect me, I let it go.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

                          I'd give them a call. In spite of their printed/posted stuff being difficult, I've found their phone help to be pretty good as long as they're treated professionally and respectfully.

                          Something similar to your experience happened to me before PTO (10/17/13). SDG & E replaced my meter 09/13/13. The meter reset itself 09/21/13. I called SDG & E 09/21/13 and it got squared away. I never got an explanation and since it didn't affect me, I let it go.
                          I called today and got a number of questions answered including the timeframe of #10. They reset my meter when they got the request for NEM and it doesn't reset on any type of schedule such as billing period or time frame.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by NateHornblower View Post

                            I called today and got a number of questions answered including the timeframe of #10. They reset my meter when they got the request for NEM and it doesn't reset on any type of schedule such as billing period or time frame.
                            And it probably won't (reset) in the future.

                            Comment

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