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  • #16
    Originally posted by SunEagle View Post



    The only reason someone would pump dc into a solar inverter at night is to use cheat their POCO by using the equipment the way it was not designed. Why would you do it?
    There's no need to be reprogramming away from the OEM install, it's just an application for which it's designed to manage without modification, or damage.

    There's no intension to cheat the POCO - I'd bet the OP is wanting to feed in some controlled DC, perhaps having stored some of the daily surplus into a battery bank - perhaps to cover his overnight baseload - using a PV inverter isn't ideal as the MPPT will maximise the inverters output, whereas a GTI with a manually entered tracking curve would enable a fixed output across a given voltage range.

    I hope the OP returns with some input.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Sean_Ork View Post

      There's no need to be reprogramming away from the OEM install, it's just an application for which it's designed to manage without modification, or damage.

      There's no intension to cheat the POCO - I'd bet the OP is wanting to feed in some controlled DC, perhaps having stored some of the daily surplus into a battery bank - perhaps to cover his overnight baseload - using a PV inverter isn't ideal as the MPPT will maximise the inverters output, whereas a GTI with a manually entered tracking curve would enable a fixed output across a given voltage range.

      I hope the OP returns with some input.
      If the OP wants to use a battery to run the inverter then the OP should be using a hybrid inverter or one that accepts a battery voltage.

      Just about all solar inverters are different enough then a Wind Turbine inverter that you can't just say they work the same way.

      Also most GTI's are not designed to work from batteries.

      If the OP is asking the question then the OP does not really know the difference and IMO is trying to perform a short cut with the equipment.

      Again if the OP wants to try this out then go ahead. But the end result may be a failed GTI and then that result would be on the OP's head.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by SunEagle View Post



        Just about all solar inverters are different enough then a Wind Turbine inverter that you can't just say they work the same way.
        Would you be so kind as to detail here how a PV inverter handles a DC voltage on its input differently to an inverter intended for use with a WT please.

        Comment


        • #19
          OK a Wind Turd is a Voltage Source and a PV panel is a Current Source. What else do you want to know?. Some MPPT Controllers Midnite Solar can do both, but there is a catch, you have to program which one because they are handled differently electronically. While others can only do one or the other, but not both to hold cost down.
          MSEE, PE

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Sunking View Post
            OK a Wind Turd is a Voltage Source and a PV panel is a Current Source. What else do you want to know?. Some MPPT Controllers Midnite Solar can do both, but there is a catch, you have to program which one because they are handled differently electronically. While others can only do one or the other, but not both to hold cost down.
            I suspect that's as good an explanation as we are likely to get on this forum, are you really an engineer ?

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Sean_Ork View Post

              I suspect that's as good an explanation as we are likely to get on this forum, are you really an engineer ?
              One of the drawbacks here is being too technical in a post because it will usually go over the head of most people who come here. If this was an engineering forum I would post as much technical information that I have or provide links to where I have read or learned that information.

              But this is a general solar forum that seems to attract a lot of non technical people that have an "idea" to save money using solar which at most times is far from being safe or even practical. It is those people I try to provide some enlightenment on what they may be doing could be dangerous or illegal and hope that is enough for them to stop and at least listen to what I say.

              Of course some do what they want anyway and do not care about being legal or safe. While I can be patient with them I do have a limit in my acceptance of their belligerence.

              Oh and without being a braggart, I do have a degree in electrical engineering and over 40 years of hands on experience in the electrical power and control field. But I am still willing to learn and feel there is much yet to uncover.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Sean_Ork View Post
                You would be more convincing if you'd provided a technical explanation as to why feeding a GTI with a voltage within its rated range would cause the inverter to fail - remembering of course that the inverters output is current limited.
                A few ways.

                First, the inverter is expecting a V/I source that looks like a solar array, which is a combination of a classic current source and a classic voltage source with some resistance. Many GTI inverters do "sweeps" - they vary their input impedance so they see the actual V/I curve of the solar array, and can then choose the most efficient operating point. If you replace the panels with an AC to DC converter (for example) you are going to add a lot of capacitance to that model - and thus the GTI inverter will see FAR more current than it expects when it drops its impedance. Will that destroy it? Depends on how good the input protection is. It almost certainly won't work right.

                Second, those "sweeps" may damage or destroy your AC/DC converter; cheap AC/DC converters do not handle dead shorts on their outputs well, for example. And once you damage or destroy the AC/DC converter all bets are off - the output might start oscillating, or it might rail at a high voltage. And that might well damage the GTI inverter.

                As others have said, it might work, it might not. Why would you want to try it?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Sean_Ork View Post
                  I suspect that's as good an explanation as we are likely to get on this forum, are you really an engineer ?
                  Your no engineer, so no need wasting my time on you. jflorey2 is telling you the exact same thing. A Wind Turd is a Voltage Source, and Solar Panels are Current Sources is all you need to know and they are not compatible algorithms. If you were an electronic engineer or technician you would understand. If you are a DIY, there is no need for me or anyone to try to explain it to you because it takes a few years of education to understand.

                  This is a DIY Forum, not Professional and detailed explanations are beyond the scope of the Forum.

                  MSEE, PE

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Sunking View Post
                    Your no engineer, so no need wasting my time on you. jflorey2 is telling you the exact same thing. A Wind Turd is a Voltage Source, and Solar Panels are Current Sources is all you need to know and they are not compatible algorithms. If you were an electronic engineer or technician you would understand. If you are a DIY, there is no need for me or anyone to try to explain it to you because it takes a few years of education to understand.

                    This is a DIY Forum, not Professional and detailed explanations are beyond the scope of the Forum.
                    You clearly know everything SK.

                    You, you're, you are .......

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      QUOTE
                      "There's no intension to cheat the POCO".

                      Looks like Mr. Sean Ork could use Spell Check as well and possibly a time out for his continual prodding and sarcasm.
                      2.2kw Suntech mono, Classic 200, NEW Trace SW4024

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by littleharbor View Post
                        QUOTE
                        "There's no intension to cheat the POCO".

                        Looks like Mr. Sean Ork could use Spell Check as well and possibly a time out for his continual prodding and sarcasm.
                        That's fine, either way I'm not bothered - I guess having a quiet forum where moderators, and wannabe moderators, compete over who can start an arguement the quickest is what the domain owner wants.

                        You may wish to Google the meaning of the word intension, while you are there perhaps take some time brush up on capitalisation.

                        Yes, that's sarcasm.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Sean_Ork View Post

                          That's fine, either way I'm not bothered - I guess having a quiet forum where moderators, and wannabe moderators, compete over who can start an arguement the quickest is what the domain owner wants.

                          You may wish to Google the meaning of the word intension, while you are there perhaps take some time brush up on capitalisation.

                          Yes, that's sarcasm.
                          Why the attitude? I have not seen anything posted from you that is helpful to people that want to learn about solar. Just push-back about others not providing technical information that satisfies you.

                          Why not provide more information about yourself and your qualifications concerning solar or electrical. It may help others to understand your position and what you are working on concerning solar.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by SunEagle View Post

                            Why the attitude? .
                            I apologize, I tend to speak to folks in the same manner as I am spoken to.

                            For what it's worth I'm a UK based CEng - I occasionally browse this forum's content as it's occasionally of interest.

                            I also find a certain members constant bleating for other members to be banned (especially those who dares to disagree with him) somewhat amusing, and just a little sad and repetitive - which is a shame as he clearly has some knowledge.



                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Sean_Ork View Post

                              I apologize, I tend to speak to folks in the same manner as I am spoken to.

                              For what it's worth I'm a UK based CEng - I occasionally browse this forum's content as it's occasionally of interest.

                              I also find a certain members constant bleating for other members to be banned (especially those who dares to disagree with him) somewhat amusing, and just a little sad and repetitive - which is a shame as he clearly has some knowledge.


                              So, take what you want, scrap the rest and maybe call B.S. if/when you're in a charitable mood if you see stuff that you believe can get the solar ignorant in trouble. The banning part is one way of calling B.S. on such behavior, particularly if of a potentially dangerous nature and/or persistent. This being something of the forum of few(er) illusions, some folks do not have your sensibilities. Perhaps you might consider them less fortunate than you.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Sean_Ork View Post

                                I apologize, I tend to speak to folks in the same manner as I am spoken to.

                                For what it's worth I'm a UK based CEng - I occasionally browse this forum's content as it's occasionally of interest.

                                I also find a certain members constant bleating for other members to be banned (especially those who dares to disagree with him) somewhat amusing, and just a little sad and repetitive - which is a shame as he clearly has some knowledge.


                                I understand. It took me a while to get past the verbal abuse (from a number of members) when I first came into this forum. I grew some thick skin and for some reason the Admin offered me the Moderator status.

                                I am not sure if I enjoy it as much as I did when I was just a member but it does have some advantages. Although it can be hard sometimes to allow members with great knowledge to express themselves a little differently then others even if some newbies think they are being treated too harsh or abused. I was one once but I believe I have moved on and I try not to get offended as much.

                                I would rather get the members with knowledge and expertise to provide good support to those that do not understand the technology. That is the only way the mystery of solar gets clearer to more people. Unfortunately sometimes you have to take the bad with the good so I tend to overlook some of the harsh verbiage.

                                I hope you stick around and help others learn what you know as well as maybe learn something new yourself.

                                IMO this is a great solar forum and I do not get paid to say that. It comes from my heart.

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