Is it worth to go solar?

[hpdad]

I asked same question two years ago but I used so much less at the time. Now two years later with the children, the usage increases much more.

I live in Inland Empire area. This is my usage in a whole year:

Tier 1: $0.15 Tier 2: $0.21 Tier 3: $0.24

All round off to a dollar.

All monthly usage fall in to Tier 3 except April in Tier 2.

2015

Oct 2015: $156------ 838 kWh

Nov 2015: $81------- 589 kWh

Dec 2015: $81--------484 kWh

2016

Jan 2016: $87-------- 493 kWh

Feb 2016: $86-------- 495 kWh

Mar 2016: $79-------- 457 kWh

Apr 2016: $68--------- 412 kWh

May 2016: $78--------- 452 kWh

Jun 2016: $89--------- 502 kWh

Jul 2016: $215------- 1038 kWh

Aug 2016: $285------- 1337 kWh

Sep 2016: $273--------- 1250 kWh

3 months of Jul, Aug, and Sep are the highest

I don’t know how they calculate kWh but in Nov and Dec 2015 the different is 100 kWh but the charge is same?

So, in 2016, the total of kWh in a year is 8347 kWh. Total charge is $1600/12 months = $134 (average)

In 2014 was 7800 kWh. Total charge is $1200/12 months = $100 (average)

[jflorey2]

I asked same question two years ago but I used so much less at the time. Now two years later with the children, the usage increases much more.

Before you even get into solar, reduce your energy use FIRST. For every $1 you spend on energy efficiency improvements you save many $$ on the eventual solar system you will use to power those devices. So it's far more cost-effective to replace lights, refrig, air conditioners FIRST.

Then if your bill is still higher than you'd like, solar will make a lot more sense.

[FFE]

The CA Climate Credit is the reason your bill is lower in Nov 2015.

In my opinion here is a simple scenario:

Install a 3.0 Kw DC setup for about $10,000 or less and switch to a Time of Use plan.
Finance with your home's equity.
Apply $3,000 tax credit to loan.
Pay $134 per month on the loan.
About 6 years later the system is paid off.

Of course this is a simplified example and you will need to run PV watts, get some quotes, download your actual usage to a spreadsheet and figure out if the Time of Use will work with a 3.0 kW DC system, make sure you will get the tax credit, etc.

I installed a system designed for minimum initial cost that covers 65% of my usage since I aggressively use the Time of Use program to get my electric bill near $0. Most other people will recommend a 100% offset. My opinion is free and usually you get what you pay for.

[DanKegel]

I like the way FFE and jflorey2 think.

Have you done the obvious easy energy efficiency moves, like replacing any incandescent bulbs with LEDs, and replacing any old fridges that are using too much energy? (You can tell how much energy a plug-in appliance is using by plugging it into a cheap energy meter called a kill-a-watt, I think mine was $20 on amazon; libraries sometimes have them to check out.)

[SunEagle]

I like the way FFE and jflorey2 think.

Have you done the obvious easy energy efficiency moves, like replacing any incandescent bulbs with LEDs, and replacing any old fridges that are using too much energy? (You can tell how much energy a plug-in appliance is using by plugging it into a cheap energy meter called a kill-a-watt, I think mine was $20 on amazon; libraries sometimes have them to check out.)

Good point Dan. The kill-a-watt is a great tool to pinpoint "watt hour" usage for a small appliances.

What I also found helpful was installing a power monitor on the main house panel. It provided me daily profiles of load usage which included spikes during the day and night that made it easy to determine what was being used and if it could be turned off.

My Blue Line device works through a website called PlotWatt also provides me an estimated cost over the last 30 days under specific categories like Heating & AC, Refrigeration or Always On. That data can help me find things to turn off or if I had a Time of Use rate shift the load to a different kWh rate.

Changing out the type of loads is one way to reduce consumption. Learning how the loads are used or abused and changing a persons habits is another way to save on the electric bill.

[hpdad]

My house was built in 1998, 1900 sq feet, two story. I replaced all my lights LED last year. .

Having an infant and two young kids, my wife is staying home full time so Time of Use program is not working for us.

[SunEagle]

My house was built in 1998, 1900 sq feet, two story. I replaced all my lights LED last year. .

Having an infant and two young kids, my wife is staying home full time so Time of Use program is not working for us.

I hear ya. When my kids were growing up I actually replaced a couple of the light switches in the closets with those mechanical timers. That way the lights could only be left on for about 15 minutes max and would automatically turn off. That was enough time for my young boys to go in find what they wanted and then leave instead of leaving the light on all day long. I did the same for some other rooms that I always found the lights on but never found anyone in during the day time. Again it is a matter of changing habits but it is hard when the family is young.

[jflorey2]

My house was built in 1998, 1900 sq feet, two story. I replaced all my lights LED last year.

Good. Next up is refrigeration and A/C. The Kill-a-watt works for refrigeration; run an experiment and see how many kwhr it takes a day. A/C is tougher. If you have a whole-house energy monitor it's pretty easy to find the peaks from compressor usage and figure it out that way.

[hpdad]

Guys, let's say that I am not going to check/replace the frig/AC. Based on my usage, any recommendation go on solar or not?

[tracksyde]

Guys, let's say that I am not going to check/replace the frig/AC. Based on my usage, any recommendation go on solar or not?

Yes

Look at FFE's hypothetical example.. especially the part where it says "About 6 years later the system is paid off." If you size your system right, do your research when it comes to installer/pricing, AND take the steps to conserve electricity where you can, after 6 years +/-, you'll have a $0 electricity bill each month and your system will be all paid for.

[J.P.M.]

Guys, let's say that I am not going to check/replace the frig/AC. Based on my usage, any recommendation go on solar or not?

Since you ask, the short answer is maybe. It looks to me as though most of your most egregious loads are due to A/C, June through Oct., with maybe 2,500 kWh going for A/C.

Before I did anything, I'd get the A/C inspected - that may be part of the high A/C usage.

Do what you want, but I had a boat with a leaky hull and an old bilge pump, I'd caulk the hull and stop the leaks, and then get a new(smaller) bilge pump. Same with a house that looks like an energy sieve. At the very least, seal it up and improve the insulation. Then, maybe, after an energy audit, consider a new(er) A/C unit properly sized (and that means not oversized) to the new load.

The A/C load you have is ~ 2,500 kWh/yr. and most of the tier 3 part of your bill. Without it, you're at ~ 6,000 kWh/yr.

The longer answer is complicated by the fact that T.O.U. pricing is in your future, probably sooner if you get a PV array. That will change your annual bill. It will also change the cost effectiveness and perhaps where an array is placed on your property for max. cost effectiveness for T.O.U. vs. tiered rates.

Back of the envelope stuff using the moron method: In the I.E. expect about 1,600 kWh/yr. per kW of PV array.
8348/1600 = 5.51 kW array. At, say, $3.25/Watt ~ $18 K *.7 ~= $12,500.

$12,500/$1,600/yr. ~ 7.8 yrs.

Kind of a long time relative to other users primarily because, believe it or not, your usage is really quite lot, particularly in the I.E.

Given your A/C load, depending on how your POCO's T.O.U. schedule works, you may find, if you dig into their rates and get your hourly usage from them, that conservation upgrades and maybe (but maybe not) a new A/C unit before solar (which will then allow a smaller and less expensive PV array) MAY be more cost effective than simply throwing solar at a (perceived) high bill.

Maybe cutting the A/C use in half by conservation/new (recharged/serviced ?) A/C might be cost effective. It'll certainly lower the required PV size and save a few more $$ that way.

To optimize cost effectiveness, you'll need to run some numbers. Information is insufficient at this time to give a better estimate.

[hpdad]

Since you ask, the short answer is maybe. It looks to me as though most of your most egregious loads are due to A/C, June through Oct., with maybe 2,500 kWh going for A/C.

Before I did anything, I'd get the A/C inspected - that may be part of the high A/C usage.

Do what you want, but I had a boat with a leaky hull and an old bilge pump, I'd caulk the hull and stop the leaks, and then get a new(smaller) bilge pump. Same with a house that looks like an energy sieve. At the very least, seal it up and improve the insulation. Then, maybe, after an energy audit, consider a new(er) A/C unit properly sized (and that means not oversized) to the new load.

The A/C load you have is ~ 2,500 kWh/yr. and most of the tier 3 part of your bill. Without it, you're at ~ 6,000 kWh/yr.

The longer answer is complicated by the fact that T.O.U. pricing is in your future, probably sooner if you get a PV array. That will change your annual bill. It will also change the cost effectiveness and perhaps where an array is placed on your property for max. cost effectiveness for T.O.U. vs. tiered rates.

Back of the envelope stuff using the moron method: In the I.E. expect about 1,600 kWh/yr. per kW of PV array.
8348/1600 = 5.51 kW array. At, say, $3.25/Watt ~ $18 K *.7 ~= $12,500.

$12,500/$1,600/yr. ~ 7.8 yrs.

Kind of a long time relative to other users primarily because, believe it or not, your usage is really quite lot, particularly in the I.E.

Given your A/C load, depending on how your POCO's T.O.U. schedule works, you may find, if you dig into their rates and get your hourly usage from them, that conservation upgrades and maybe (but maybe not) a new A/C unit before solar (which will then allow a smaller and less expensive PV array) MAY be more cost effective than simply throwing solar at a (perceived) high bill.

Maybe cutting the A/C use in half by conservation/new (recharged/serviced ?) A/C might be cost effective. It'll certainly lower the required PV size and save a few more $$ that way.

To optimize cost effectiveness, you'll need to run some numbers. Information is insufficient at this time to give a better estimate.

I think you're right. The most usage is from AC. I replaced new AC two years ago. The old one just didn't blow any cold air anymore. The cost increase since I replaced the new one even though we very conservative about using AC. We only set 80-81 F in the summer when we we need too.

I will run some numbers then back for more questions

[FFE]

Super simple estimate to approximate how much you need at cover most of your SCE bill for a low to moderate user like yourself:

I believe the Inland Empire is SCE country. Log onto your SCE account (or set it up) and find the green button.
Download a years worth of your usage history.
Sum up the kWh used from 8am to 9:59pm (listed in the 8am to 9pm rows).
Sum up the kWh used from 10pm to 7:59am (listed in the 10pm to 7am rows).
Design a system that puts out the total of your Usage from 8am to 9:59pm plus 20% of your Usage from 10pm to 7:59am.
Oversize a little (10-20%) for future increased usage and panel degradation unless you can keep a tight rein on the usage.

The hard (right) way to do it:
Download the same information, sum up your usage and subtract the hourly output data from PVWatts, factor in the rates for your utility including all minimum fees, daily fees, climate credits, etc, and keep running PVWatts over with different size systems until you come up with a zero bill.

Also, keep in mind that most family members will increase their electrical usage sine electricity is now "free" and will turn down the thermostat more often.

Edit: This is for a minimum size system. Many others will recommend a 100% usage system. That is a great idea too. This is just a low cost alternative and is subject to SCE/CPUC whims and rate changes.

You will need to switch to TOU-A for this to work.

Free advice...you usually get what you pay for....