Timing of changing to NEM/EV (PG&E)

[astroboy]

Hi All,

My PV system was up and running in mid-november and Permission To Operate was granted on 11/23/2015.

I just received my last E1 bill from PGE and it spanned the period from 11/10/2015 to 12/10/2015. a smartmeter was installed on 11/19/2015 - prior to that i had an old-style meter.

I also have a Rainforest Eagle, and based on what it's reading out of the smartmeter, PGE seems to have charged me for the energy i pulled from the grid, but not credited me for energy pushed out to the grid. I understand that this is correct, and it sounds like i may have dodged a bullet since they don't seem to have charged me for the energy that was pushed to the grid.

My question is, shouldn't PGE have transitioned me to NEM and the new TOU tariff on the day that PTO was received? it would make a huge difference to my bill. are NEM and tariff changes only allowed on statement boundaries? this seems like one of those things the CPUC might have an opinion on

thanks,

astro

[sensij]

My question is, shouldn't PGE have transitioned me to NEM and the new TOU tariff on the day that PTO was received? it would make a huge difference to my bill. are NEM and tariff changes only allowed on statement boundaries? this seems like one of those things the CPUC might have an opinion on

No, it is common for the statement cycle to be preserved. For example, I received PTO on 4/9, but my billing period started on 3/27. When I wanted to switch to TOU, it didn't take effect until the next billing cycle.

[astroboy]

so do you think this is something that could be contested? basically i'm looking at 17 days of usage in E1 tier 3, vs. NEM EV... we've been charging the cars at night during this time and i'm sure it would make a huge difference.

[sensij]

I doubt it can be contested. Many people actually prefer this, because you may find that credits you generate next spring or summer are enough to pay that tier 3 bill, when those credits would have otherwise gone to waste.

[astroboy]

i get what you are saying in theory but i don't understand how that works in practice. won't the NEM bills start on Dec 11 2015, and thus the true-up period go from Dec 11 2015 to Dec 10 2016? the usage in nov-dec 2015 won't be part of the true-up calculation, so how can it be offset by credits generated in 2016? at any rate this last E1 bill has to be payed by jan 2016 so again not sure how it gets offset.

[sensij]

Are you saying your current bill gives no indication that it is a NEM bill, the first of the 12 that will make up your true-up period? If so, then PG&E does this differently than SDG&E. My first NEM bill included the couple weeks before my PTO was granted; they did not wait for the first full billing period with the active system to start NEM (although I did have to wait for a billing period to complete to begin TOU).

[astroboy]

this is correct, my current bill is not a NEM bill. it is a tiered residential bill (E1), no time of use. in theory it could have been a NEM bill starting the day the smartmeter was installed, which was 4 days prior to PTO.

i have spoken with PGE a couple of times on the phone prior to receiving this last bill; the 2nd time they told me they thought that my nov-dec bill would end on the day the smartmeter was installed, so this bill came as kind of a surprise.

[sensij]

Just to be clear, the fact that it is tiered residential (E1) has nothing to do with whether or not it is NEM. Net metering can occur on any rate plan, it does not require time of use. It also does not technically require a smart meter, just one that is bi-directional. TOU rate plans do require a smart meter, but that is true whether NEM is involved or not.

[astroboy]

understood. but you will see in my original post that i had an old "dial" meter until the smartmeter was put in. hence i could only be put on NEM starting from the day the smartmeter was installed.

[sensij]

Dial meters can be bidirectional, and used for NEM.

[astroboy]

fair enough, i am confusing TOU with NEM, only because it seems like most PV solar people are on both.

[J.P.M.]

fair enough, i am confusing TOU with NEM, only because it seems like most PV solar people are on both.

Most Solar PV owners in SDG & E territory are still on tiered rates at this time. If the awareness in my HOA is any indication, most are clueless what T.O.U. is or that they will need to actively choose to stay on tiered rates or get switched to T.O.U. automatically.

BTW, through all of this, billing cycles for any user are usually preserved. Sort of an anachronism from the days when meter reading was done door/door by humans on a schedule. SDG & E still calls it a meter reading schedule.

[Yaryman]

No, it is common for the statement cycle to be preserved. For example, I received PTO on 4/9, but my billing period started on 3/27. When I wanted to switch to TOU, it didn't take effect until the next billing cycle.

There are a lot of questions in this thread, BUT what happened to you with in San Diego with SDG&E may not be what happens with PG&E here in Northern California.

[sensij]

Agreed, I said as much in post 6. stuff since then is just separating confusion between nem and tou.

[astroboy]

actually, i'm not super confused about what NEM and TOU are (i should have said "conflating" above) - my apparently wrong assumption was that most PV solar customers are going to be on both NEM and TOU. that is certainly the case in my particular situation. as long as i've been researching solar (maybe 6 years now, until i finally decided to pull the trigger), PGE has had some kind of TOU plan which they offer to solar customers. and heck, they offer the TOU plan to EV customers. i think if the IOUs had their way, everyone would be on a TOU tariff. so my assumption was that PV solar == TOU+NEM but clearly that's not true.

so, let me start over: since i was transitioning to a TOU plan, i needed a new meter - either a smartmeter or a non-smartmeter TOU meter. my PV application specified EV (non-tiered TOU) + NEM, so there's no way i could have been put onto that plan before the date the new meter was installed.

as an aside, i never had a smartmeter installed because my service is behind a fence, and i was never home when they showed up to make the swap. initially there was a lot of flap where people were claiming that the smartmeters were overcharging them, so i figured i'd just keep the old-fashioned meter. eventually i got lumped in with all the tinfoil hatters, and ended up paying $10 per month for someone to come and read the meter. the last straw was when PGE then petitioned the CPUC to allow them to read every other month. at that point i figured i'd had enough abuse, and decided to go solar.

anyway, yes my question pertains to PGE so it would be nice to hear from someone in PG&E's area. it seems to me that as soon as my smartmeter was up and running and provisioned in PG&E's system, they could have put me on EV+NEM, but they didn't. clearly waiting until the next billing cycle is to their benefit, so i'm not surprised. i'm just trying to understand if this is "the way it is" or if i have any hope of getting them to change the start date of EV+NEM.

maybe i don't care too much since from this point forward my electric bills should be quite low, but it is a bit of an insult to injury to pay $0.32/kwh for a bunch of electricity consumed when the off-peak rate was $0.10/kwh, and on top of that have to give a bunch of electricity to PGE for free.