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  • Darfon systems with battery?

    I recently found that their is a non "Power Wall" option for a two box grid tie with battery PV system. It revolves around the Darfon H5001 hybrid invert er which is a dual mppt string invert er that supports 48VDC nominal battery packs. The PV strings must be less than 500VDC and 13 amp. The basic invert er is a bit higher priced than simple string invert ers @ $2568 but it appears to include a 60 amp battery charging facility and can operate with the grid down from the battery and/or PV. So it includes the " charge controller" and battery invert er functions which would be separate with similar functionality from Xantrex or Outback. Darfon also markets packages with LIFEPO4 batteries (48V nominal including BMS) as the H301 @ $4525 or H302 @ $6566 offering 5KWh and 10KWh of storage. I'm really sold on Solar Edge optimisers but not the "Powerwall systems. I could use the Solar edge SMI 35 @$1279 between the optimisers and the Darfon hybrid invert er but for less $ I could get a 6kw Solar Edge Inverter (SE6000H-US HD @ $1220). I wonder if there is a way to " trick" the Solar Edge invert er into working with the Darfon while the grid is down?

  • #2
    You could skip all the crap and use the StorEdge inverter with the LG RESU10h battery.

    OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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    • #3
      Butch,
      It should be VERY obvious that I'm well aware of the option you suggest! It SUCKS! Because: There is no provision for a generator; The battery capacity is not expandable or selectable;
      It uses a proprietary high voltage battery that IMO is unsafe. The Darfon H5001 can certainly be used, without optimisers, to provide a clearly better, IMO, in many ways, battery backed solar system.
      However, I place considerable value on one feature of Solar Edge solutions, the "safe DC". Clearly Solar Edge is greedy and doesn't want their optimisers used with other manufacturer's inverters as indicated by the pricing of the SMI despite their advertising. I believe that I can use a sSolar Edge inverter instead of the SMI with an H5001 by simply "AC coupling" the output of the SE inverter to the "protected load" output of the H5001.
      Last edited by Jerry Liebler; 03-25-2018, 10:52 AM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Jerry Liebler View Post
        Butch,
        It should be VERY obvious that I'm well aware of the option you suggest! It SUCKS! Because: There is no provision for a generator; The battery capacity is not expandable or selectable;
        Though the StorEdge is currently not advertised as working with a generator, there is no reason it wouldn < F it
        i am not typing that in again

        blame the damn moderators.
        OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post
          < F it
          i am not typing that in again
          blame the damn moderators.
          Mods can't fix it, only the admin can. Sorry. I don't even have a train whistle to blow

          Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
          || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
          || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

          solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
          gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

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          • #6
            I have the storedge 7600 with 2 lgchem resu10h and I can't for the life of me get then to communicate. I can get one or the other but the inverter won't read both batteries. Any tips on this?

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            • #7
              We bought a Darfon H5001 but returned it. We may post a YouTube review.

              Benefits:
              • Works with or without batteries like string inverter
              • Gangable and 3 phase (you will need to gang 2 because 1 is not enough power).
              • UL1741SA / Rule 21 compliant for California sell back.
              • Low cost <$3300
              • User wiring area

              Weaknesses
              • You have to buy 2 and gang them because 2500W per phase is not enough.
              • 102W x 2 idle power (that's 2 solar panels x 2 units = 4 panels of power a day to power itself)
              • 89.5% efficiency from Batt to AC or AC to Batt. Similar to most low cost Chinese inverters.
              • LCD & GUI was really poor.
              • Programming must be done with external PC. We never got external programming to work.
              • No Arc Fault Hardware. Can't be installed on a residential home.
              • The loudest fans I have ever heard on any electronics EVER. This single system was like you were in a PC server room. We had to yell to talk over it.

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              • #8
                I tried to post a website but I guess that is not allowed. Here is a photo of the test data on Darfon. Pretty interesting.

                [ mod note - this chart leaves out some major inverters, and has been reported to be inaccurate in several other respects,
                with the possibility the poster has something to gain, as he has repeatedly tried to link or otherwise publish this suspect data
                7/26 update. Chart is too bogus to leave posted, and has been edited ]


                DarfonChartBW.jpg
                Last edited by Mike90250; 07-26-2018, 07:27 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by covino88 View Post
                  I have the storedge 7600 with 2 lgchem resu10h and I can't for the life of me get then to communicate. I can get one or the other but the inverter won't read both batteries. Any tips on this?
                  You have to upgrade the firmware on the inverter and change the address in one battery so they are not the same address.
                  OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by EMPengineer1776 View Post
                    I tried to post a website but I guess that is not allowed. Here is a photo of the test data on Darfon. Pretty interesting.
                    This is a very missleading document with inacurate information on many inverters. To the point of being more wrong than right. I think it should be trashed.
                    OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      He's trying to drum up business for Sol-Ark.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by EMPengineer1776 View Post
                        I tried to post a website but I guess that is not allowed. Here is a photo of the test data on Darfon. Pretty interesting.

                        [ mod note - this chart leaves out some major inverters, and has been reported to be inaccurate in several other respects,
                        with the possibility the poster has something to gain, as he has repeatedly tried to link or otherwise publish this suspect data ]
                        Nuke the POS Spammer
                        MSEE, PE

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post

                          This is a very missleading document with inacurate information on many inverters. To the point of being more wrong than right. I think it should be trashed.
                          Actually, I was trying to share the differences between different designs: DC coupled vs. AC coupled vs. DC Transformerless. And even sharing data that is not present. I was trying to educate, not promote.
                          I just got back from presenting at Intersolar. Outback, Magnum, Sonnen, Midnight, Morningstar, press and others were discussing this chart for 3 days. We have a lot of mutual respect. Not a single expert said any data was wrong. So I would challenge you to show me a single spec that is incorrect!
                          Thanks for being so open to discuss ideas. We are all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.
                          Feel free to delete my account.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by EMPengineer1776 View Post

                            Actually, I was trying to share the differences between different designs: DC coupled vs. AC coupled vs. DC Transformerless. And even sharing data that is not present. I was trying to educate, not promote.
                            I just got back from presenting at Intersolar. Outback, Magnum, Sonnen, Midnight, Morningstar, press and others were discussing this chart for 3 days. We have a lot of mutual respect. Not a single expert said any data was wrong. So I would challenge you to show me a single spec that is incorrect!
                            Thanks for being so open to discuss ideas. We are all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.
                            Feel free to delete my account.
                            I soecified the data on the other thread this is posted on.
                            OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by EMPengineer1776 View Post

                              Actually, I was trying to share the differences between different designs: DC coupled vs. AC coupled vs. DC Transformerless. And even sharing data that is not present. I was trying to educate, not promote.
                              I just got back from presenting at Intersolar. Outback, Magnum, Sonnen, Midnight, Morningstar, press and others were discussing this chart for 3 days. We have a lot of mutual respect. Not a single expert said any data was wrong. So I would challenge you to show me a single spec that is incorrect!
                              Thanks for being so open to discuss ideas. We are all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.
                              Feel free to delete my account.
                              This is Bryan Whitton from Darfon. I am the Product Manager for the H5000 Hybrid inverter in the USA. One of our consultants found your data matrix last Monday and I replied to him with the following content corrections:
                              1. Price is listed at $6.5K when it should be $5990 MSRP
                              2. Peak Power should be 15kW @ 5 Sec not 13kW
                              3. Continuous power for two inverters for the critical load panel is 6.5kW with the grid active and 5.5kW with the grid inactive
                              4. System idle Power should be approximately 40W for two inverters, we are retesting here to confirm
                              5. Maximum Solar Power should be 13kW not 10kW
                              6. PV to Batt efficiency should be 91.5 to 92% not 89% All of these
                              7. AC to Batt efficiency should be 91% not 89.0%
                              8. Batt to AC efficiency should be 91% not 89.5%
                              9. Warranty should be 5/10 yr. not 5 yr.
                              I talked over the claims that the author makes with our Head Designer and my VP and we would be very interested in seeing his test procedures. I would assume that this is from Sol-Ark but I don't know how to contact the poster. We were all at InterSolar and no one ever came by to talk to us about the H5000. What concerns me with this post is the lack of background information. How were the tests performed? Who were the experts? The only experts that I am aware of on this inverter is Myself, Wesley Liu, the Head Designer, and Frank O'Young VP of Darfon in the Mountain View office and my boss. None of us have been contacted to confirm either his test methods or the results.
                              As for the fans, they are 66 DB at full production and are only at that level when PV production is near the limits. I agree that is loud but not so loud that you need to shout over them.
                              I have often posted information on the various Darfon products but I always post my name and position for complete transparency. I really wish the author would do the same so we could have open discussion about his findings and make sure the real information is posted.

                              Bryan Whitton

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