I recently found that their is a non "Power Wall" option for a two box grid tie with battery PV system. It revolves around the Darfon H5001 hybrid invert er which is a dual mppt string invert er that supports 48VDC nominal battery packs. The PV strings must be less than 500VDC and 13 amp. The basic invert er is a bit higher priced than simple string invert ers @ $2568 but it appears to include a 60 amp battery charging facility and can operate with the grid down from the battery and/or PV. So it includes the " charge controller" and battery invert er functions which would be separate with similar functionality from Xantrex or Outback. Darfon also markets packages with LIFEPO4 batteries (48V nominal including BMS) as the H301 @ $4525 or H302 @ $6566 offering 5KWh and 10KWh of storage. I'm really sold on Solar Edge optimisers but not the "Powerwall systems. I could use the Solar edge SMI 35 @$1279 between the optimisers and the Darfon hybrid invert er but for less $ I could get a 6kw Solar Edge Inverter (SE6000H-US HD @ $1220). I wonder if there is a way to " trick" the Solar Edge invert er into working with the Darfon while the grid is down?
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You could skip all the crap and use the StorEdge inverter with the LG RESU10h battery.
OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH -
Butch,
It should be VERY obvious that I'm well aware of the option you suggest! It SUCKS! Because: There is no provision for a generator; The battery capacity is not expandable or selectable;
It uses a proprietary high voltage battery that IMO is unsafe. The Darfon H5001 can certainly be used, without optimisers, to provide a clearly better, IMO, in many ways, battery backed solar system.
However, I place considerable value on one feature of Solar Edge solutions, the "safe DC". Clearly Solar Edge is greedy and doesn't want their optimisers used with other manufacturer's inverters as indicated by the pricing of the SMI despite their advertising. I believe that I can use a sSolar Edge inverter instead of the SMI with an H5001 by simply "AC coupling" the output of the SE inverter to the "protected load" output of the H5001.Last edited by Jerry Liebler; 03-25-2018, 10:52 AM.Comment
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Originally posted by Jerry Liebler View PostButch,
It should be VERY obvious that I'm well aware of the option you suggest! It SUCKS! Because: There is no provision for a generator; The battery capacity is not expandable or selectable;
i am not typing that in again
blame the damn moderators.OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNHComment
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Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post< F it
i am not typing that in again
blame the damn moderators.
Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
|| Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
|| VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A
solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-ListerComment
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I have the storedge 7600 with 2 lgchem resu10h and I can't for the life of me get then to communicate. I can get one or the other but the inverter won't read both batteries. Any tips on this?Comment
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We bought a Darfon H5001 but returned it. We may post a YouTube review.
Benefits:- Works with or without batteries like string inverter
- Gangable and 3 phase (you will need to gang 2 because 1 is not enough power).
- UL1741SA / Rule 21 compliant for California sell back.
- Low cost <$3300
- User wiring area
Weaknesses- You have to buy 2 and gang them because 2500W per phase is not enough.
- 102W x 2 idle power (that's 2 solar panels x 2 units = 4 panels of power a day to power itself)
- 89.5% efficiency from Batt to AC or AC to Batt. Similar to most low cost Chinese inverters.
- LCD & GUI was really poor.
- Programming must be done with external PC. We never got external programming to work.
- No Arc Fault Hardware. Can't be installed on a residential home.
- The loudest fans I have ever heard on any electronics EVER. This single system was like you were in a PC server room. We had to yell to talk over it.
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I tried to post a website but I guess that is not allowed. Here is a photo of the test data on Darfon. Pretty interesting.
[ mod note - this chart leaves out some major inverters, and has been reported to be inaccurate in several other respects,
with the possibility the poster has something to gain, as he has repeatedly tried to link or otherwise publish this suspect data
7/26 update. Chart is too bogus to leave posted, and has been edited ]
DarfonChartBW.jpg
Last edited by Mike90250; 07-26-2018, 07:27 PM.Comment
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Originally posted by covino88 View PostI have the storedge 7600 with 2 lgchem resu10h and I can't for the life of me get then to communicate. I can get one or the other but the inverter won't read both batteries. Any tips on this?OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNHComment
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Originally posted by EMPengineer1776 View PostI tried to post a website but I guess that is not allowed. Here is a photo of the test data on Darfon. Pretty interesting.OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNHComment
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Originally posted by EMPengineer1776 View PostI tried to post a website but I guess that is not allowed. Here is a photo of the test data on Darfon. Pretty interesting.
[ mod note - this chart leaves out some major inverters, and has been reported to be inaccurate in several other respects,
with the possibility the poster has something to gain, as he has repeatedly tried to link or otherwise publish this suspect data ]
MSEE, PEComment
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Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post
This is a very missleading document with inacurate information on many inverters. To the point of being more wrong than right. I think it should be trashed.
I just got back from presenting at Intersolar. Outback, Magnum, Sonnen, Midnight, Morningstar, press and others were discussing this chart for 3 days. We have a lot of mutual respect. Not a single expert said any data was wrong. So I would challenge you to show me a single spec that is incorrect!
Thanks for being so open to discuss ideas. We are all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.
Feel free to delete my account.Comment
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Originally posted by EMPengineer1776 View Post
Actually, I was trying to share the differences between different designs: DC coupled vs. AC coupled vs. DC Transformerless. And even sharing data that is not present. I was trying to educate, not promote.
I just got back from presenting at Intersolar. Outback, Magnum, Sonnen, Midnight, Morningstar, press and others were discussing this chart for 3 days. We have a lot of mutual respect. Not a single expert said any data was wrong. So I would challenge you to show me a single spec that is incorrect!
Thanks for being so open to discuss ideas. We are all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.
Feel free to delete my account.OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNHComment
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Originally posted by EMPengineer1776 View Post
Actually, I was trying to share the differences between different designs: DC coupled vs. AC coupled vs. DC Transformerless. And even sharing data that is not present. I was trying to educate, not promote.
I just got back from presenting at Intersolar. Outback, Magnum, Sonnen, Midnight, Morningstar, press and others were discussing this chart for 3 days. We have a lot of mutual respect. Not a single expert said any data was wrong. So I would challenge you to show me a single spec that is incorrect!
Thanks for being so open to discuss ideas. We are all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.
Feel free to delete my account.- Price is listed at $6.5K when it should be $5990 MSRP
- Peak Power should be 15kW @ 5 Sec not 13kW
- Continuous power for two inverters for the critical load panel is 6.5kW with the grid active and 5.5kW with the grid inactive
- System idle Power should be approximately 40W for two inverters, we are retesting here to confirm
- Maximum Solar Power should be 13kW not 10kW
- PV to Batt efficiency should be 91.5 to 92% not 89% All of these
- AC to Batt efficiency should be 91% not 89.0%
- Batt to AC efficiency should be 91% not 89.5%
- Warranty should be 5/10 yr. not 5 yr.
As for the fans, they are 66 DB at full production and are only at that level when PV production is near the limits. I agree that is loud but not so loud that you need to shout over them.
I have often posted information on the various Darfon products but I always post my name and position for complete transparency. I really wish the author would do the same so we could have open discussion about his findings and make sure the real information is posted.
Bryan Whitton
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