Help me find a Hybrid Inverter with these specs...

[ButchDeal]

Sorry didn't mean to come off as argumentative was just discussing.
And Thank you. I don't have as much high end electrical back ground as some on here but try to do research and keep up.

[APD]

Sure given the original post I read the " without batteries" as tertiary to the main comment that they can not function as grid tie inverters.
given that you wanted a bimodal system, the batteries are required, in that context the inverters will function as grid tie.

OK thanks for the input.

I'm pretty disappointed that I cant seem to find an inverter for the US market that does this, although Im still waiting to hear back from some companies.
To me it seems like a no-brainer feature on a "Hybrid" inverter. I had assumed that Hybrid or Bimodal meant "Either-or" not "both or nothing".
After searching this and other online forums, I found my question to be common. In fact, I found out after I posted here that Outback has this is as one of their FAQ's on their website, with the answer: "all our inverters require batteries". So it seems there is a demand for this, and it is technically not difficult.

MPP makes models that do what I want, and are certified for Europe/Australia, but not US, and they are $500-1200 depending on model.

I just dont get why having battery back up as an option should prevent you from operating in grid-only mode.

Any thoughts as to why US models are not designed this way?

[ButchDeal]

To me it seems like a no-brainer feature on a "Hybrid" inverter. I had assumed that Hybrid or Bimodal meant "Either-or" not "both or nothing".

It does mean Either OR. Just means either ON GRID or OFF GRID. NOT with or without batteries.

I just dont get why having battery back up as an option should prevent you from operating in grid-only mode.

Your issue is defining Grid only to be Battery less.

As I mentioned already the only one that can do what you want is the SolarEdge StorEdge inverter in the US. There will be a new version of it soon that should support more battery options than just the powerwall v1.

[APD]

Your issue is defining Grid only to be Battery less.

Absolutely.
"Grid only" is by definition battery-less.
My house is currently grid only, and has no batteries, as are most houses in the world. So "ON-GRID" and "without batteries" is the standard.

...and most grid tied sytems are battery-less.

[jflorey2]

I just dont get why having battery back up as an option should prevent you from operating in grid-only mode.

Because right now the paradigm is either:

Solar to regulated DC, DC to battery, battery to grid
Solar directly to grid

Pure grid tie inverters operate at around 320 volts; that's the voltage you need to drive backwards into the grid. Hybrid inverters generally operate at about 56 volts; that's a voltage that works well with batteries. You could operate with a battery around 400 volts which would make it easier to have either a battery or a batteryless inverter (which is what Solaredge does) but 400 volt batteries are rare and expensive.

[ButchDeal]

Absolutely.
"Grid only" is by definition battery-less.
My house is currently grid only, and has no batteries, as are most houses in the world.

most houses in the world are Grid only and without SOLAR. They don't have batteries, solar modules, or inverters.

You are being pedantic. This is SolarPanelTalk and the thread we are communicating in is about Hybrid Inverters.
Good luck with your quest

[APD]

most houses in the world are Grid only and without SOLAR. They don't have batteries, solar modules, or inverters.

You are being pedantic. This is SolarPanelTalk and the thread we are communicating in is about Hybrid Inverters.
Good luck with your quest

...And most houses with solar do not have batteries.
Its a string inverter combined with off-grid battery inverter in one box. That's all I'm asking for. They are available in other countries, and I find it odd that they are not here. That's all.

Most solar people on the grid view battery back up as an additional option.
If they were told that adding the battery option would commit them to always NEEDING the batteries, and their solar array would be useless without them, I think fewer would take that option (which is the case, but also because of additional cost).
Similarly, many solar newbies are disappointed when they find out that they cannot use their solar power (in the daytime) when the grid is down...and SMA is addressing that need with their SPS system.
If you need the batteries to operate the inverter, there is no GRID ONLY mode.

I asked for ideas why this might be, and there are hybrid inverters that do this, so it is well within the arena of hybrid inverter discussion.


JFLOREY2: yes I recognize the different voltage issues (in my first post). It could be solved with a step up/down transformer and appropriate switching circuitry.

[jflorey2]

Its a string inverter combined with off-grid battery inverter in one box. That's all I'm asking for. They are available in other countries, and I find it odd that they are not here. That's all.

FYI Midnite is coming out with a small system (1-2kW) that does that.

JFLOREY2: yes I recognize the different voltage issues (in my first post). It could be solved with a step up/down transformer and appropriate switching circuitry.

Transformers don't work for DC.

[APD]

Transformers don't work for DC.

Indeed.
boost/buck converter, mosfets, etc. Same idea, wrong term. Its obviously possible

Solis/Ginlong makes hybrid inverter with both high voltage and low voltage DC input

[jflorey2]

boost/buck converter, mosfets, etc. Same idea, wrong term. Its obviously possible.

It definitely is - and we often call them charge controllers.

[APD]

It definitely is - and we often call them charge controllers.

Yep, I was thinking the same thing.
And many inverters have built in charge controllers.