Converting an off-grid solar to a hybrid for net-metering....

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  • GoodJBoy
    Junior Member
    • Nov 2012
    • 19
    #1

    Converting an off-grid solar to a hybrid for net-metering....

    We have a 12v solar powered, totally off grid loop (with fuse protection) in our home. We use it to power 12v outlets around the house and to power a 8 cubic foot freezer and overhead pull chain lights on every floor of our home. This time of year, the battery bank is almost always full because there is so much sun. I was wondering if I could replace our current solar charger for the battery bank with a different kind of solar charger that would sense when the battery bank is full and transfer the incoming solar power to another load (which would be an inverter used to run my home meter backwards). When the battery bank hit a certain lower voltage, power would be transferred back into the battery bank.

    Does such a thing exist? Can someone give me recommendations?

    Thanks!
    Tags: None
    • jflorey2
      Solar Fanatic
      • Aug 2015
      • 2331
      #2
      Originally posted by GoodJBoy
      We have a 12v solar powered, totally off grid loop (with fuse protection) in our home. We use it to power 12v outlets around the house and to power a 8 cubic foot freezer and overhead pull chain lights on every floor of our home. This time of year, the battery bank is almost always full because there is so much sun. I was wondering if I could replace our current solar charger for the battery bank with a different kind of solar charger that would sense when the battery bank is full and transfer the incoming solar power to another load (which would be an inverter used to run my home meter backwards). When the battery bank hit a certain lower voltage, power would be transferred back into the battery bank.

      Does such a thing exist? Can someone give me recommendations?
      It used to. The old Trace SW2512 could do hybrid grid-tie at 12 volts. Nowadays you'd have to go to 24 volts to get that functionality via something like an Outback GTFX3524.

        Comment

        • ButchDeal
          Solar Fanatic
          • Apr 2014
          • 3802
          #3
          Originally posted by GoodJBoy
          We have a 12v solar powered, totally off grid loop (with fuse protection) in our home. We use it to power 12v outlets around the house and to power a 8 cubic foot freezer and overhead pull chain lights on every floor of our home. This time of year, the battery bank is almost always full because there is so much sun. I was wondering if I could replace our current solar charger for the battery bank with a different kind of solar charger that would sense when the battery bank is full and transfer the incoming solar power to another load (which would be an inverter used to run my home meter backwards). When the battery bank hit a certain lower voltage, power would be transferred back into the battery bank.

          Does such a thing exist? Can someone give me recommendations?

          Thanks!
          A bymodal inverter can do this for you. 12v systems are generally pretty small though. What size is your array?
          OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

            Comment

            • GoodJBoy
              #3.5
              GoodJBoy commented
              05-30-2016, 04:29 PM
              Editing a comment
              Thanks for your feedback.

              Our battery bank is fused and vented via a ridge vent in our attic space (the battery bank is in the attic). The licensed electrical engineer we consulted with put his seal on our plans and the system was built according to those plans. I am very interested in your setup and I look forward to learning more about your system. I am going to check out your link...

              Thanks!
              • GoodJBoy
                #3.6
                GoodJBoy commented
                05-30-2016, 04:34 PM
                Editing a comment
                I am very interested in your battery setup that will last three times longer than my Amazon.com batteries... I could not find the link you were referencing on your signature... Is there a good place I can go to learn about your battery setup? Can you shoot me a link? Thanks!
                • ButchDeal
                  #3.7
                  ButchDeal commented
                  05-30-2016, 04:38 PM
                  Editing a comment
                  I design and manage the design of national provider but mine is a self install with friends and electrician.
                  http://bit.ly/1THvOTB & http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

                  I am a bit concerned about your comment related to the ridge vent for batteries. This does NOT sound proper to me.
                  Do you have any photos of your battery arrangement? 20 batteries in parallel is not going to perform well.
                  What battery model do you have?
                • Sunking
                  Solar Fanatic
                  • Feb 2010
                  • 23301
                  #4
                  12 volt for a multi-story house? Off-grid with commercial power available?

                  Now that is some funny stuff, I don't care who you are.

                  MSEE, PE

                    Comment

                    • GoodJBoy
                      #4.3
                      GoodJBoy commented
                      05-30-2016, 03:02 PM
                      Editing a comment
                      The freezer works on 24v as well as 12v. I purposely designed our system so that I could easily convert our 12v system to 24v in less than 10 minutes. We have 20 35amp-hr 12v batteries (got them off of Amazon.com for $65 each) and we have two 12v 300W solar arrays (totally 600w) coming into 2 different 12v Sunforce 30 amp charge controllers. It would be easy as pie just to separate the battery bank into two rows (and jump the output voltage to 24V) each powered by 300w of solar and each with it's own charge controller. The issue is that my kids use 12v plug in devices around the house and I am leary of our little kids fingers getting shocked by 24v shocks (we have little kids) rather than 12v shocks. But, I am still open to 24v's if someone gives me a good reason to switch.
                      • ButchDeal
                        #4.4
                        ButchDeal commented
                        05-30-2016, 03:29 PM
                        Editing a comment
                        Ok so you have a large home with grid, but an off grid system at 12v and 20 parallel 12v batteries. I am with sunking on this one. Good luck
                        • ButchDeal
                          #4.5
                          ButchDeal commented
                          05-30-2016, 04:43 PM
                          Editing a comment
                          Note my batteries will last longer because they are designed for this work, are larger, and two biggest things are in a single string and are on a bimodal system ( means they discharge much less often )
                        • solarix
                          Super Moderator
                          • Apr 2015
                          • 1415
                          #5
                          Our utility here (APS - one of the ones pushing for solar restrictions) allows people to backfeed up to 1000W without an interconnection agreement. Your gonna have trouble finding a grid-tieable inverter that small though. Could connect micro-inverters to the panels when the batteries are full I guess.
                          BSEE, R11, NABCEP, Chevy BoltEV, >3000kW installed

                            Comment

                            • MetricAmerica
                              Junior Member
                              • May 2016
                              • 26
                              #6
                              Not so hard at all, I just bought a 600 w gti on Amazon for $100... So trace no longer with us? Or just thier 'old' products? I wish my utilities was so generous to allow on without permitted...

                                Comment

                                • ButchDeal
                                  #6.1
                                  ButchDeal commented
                                  05-30-2016, 05:42 PM
                                  Editing a comment
                                  He said no interconnect agreement. Would still need permit for electric work
                                • jflorey2
                                  Solar Fanatic
                                  • Aug 2015
                                  • 2331
                                  #7
                                  Originally posted by MetricAmerica
                                  Not so hard at all, I just bought a 600 w gti on Amazon for $100.
                                  You get what you pay for, especially with grid tie products. (Note that such products generally do NOT work with batteries to begin with.)
                                  So trace no longer with us? Or just thier 'old' products?
                                  Purchased by Xantrex.

                                    Comment

                                    • Sunking
                                      Solar Fanatic
                                      • Feb 2010
                                      • 23301
                                      #8
                                      This just keeps getting funnier by the minute.

                                      off grid system at 12v and 20 parallel 12v batteries with utility power available
                                      The ignorance is just mind blowing how clueless some folks are.



                                      Talk about being stuck inside a 12 Volt BOX. If he only knew.
                                      MSEE, PE

                                        Comment

                                        • SunEagle
                                          Super Moderator
                                          • Oct 2012
                                          • 15125
                                          #9
                                          Originally posted by MetricAmerica
                                          Not so hard at all, I just bought a 600 w gti on Amazon for $100... So trace no longer with us? Or just thier 'old' products? I wish my utilities was so generous to allow on without permitted...
                                          More than likely that GTI is not UL listed and illegal to use in the US or a few other countries. Unless the inverter is hard wire connected to a circuit breaker in the main panel and has the UL listing you can't use it.

                                          Solarix is correct that finding a legal gti rated only 1000 watts is really hard to find.

                                          Where he is making a mistake is thinking a solar / battery system will save him money which is doubtful unless he pays his POCO over $0.50/kWh.

                                            Comment

                                            • MetricAmerica
                                              Junior Member
                                              • May 2016
                                              • 26
                                              #10
                                              Oh, actually I knew Xantrex bought Trace...
                                              And for the 'Chinese' gti, OH WELL, sometimes gorilla is the only way to go....until they put the FU cked upped stupid 'smart meter' on...
                                              And sure they can work with batteries, by putting on a Trace unit.....
                                              Last edited by MetricAmerica; 06-03-2016, 01:16 PM.

                                                Comment

                                                • SunEagle
                                                  Super Moderator
                                                  • Oct 2012
                                                  • 15125
                                                  #11
                                                  Originally posted by MetricAmerica
                                                  Oh, actually I knew Xantrex bought Trace...
                                                  And for the 'Chinese' gti, OH WELL, sometimes gorilla is the only way to go....until they put the FU cked upped stupid 'smart meter' on...
                                                  It is your money as well as your insurance company that you have to deal with should that GTI fail causing a fire in your home. I wouldn't want to try to explain why it got installed and damaged my home but if that is the way you play then that is your business.

                                                  Please do not try to tell people on this forum to use one of those illegal GTI. They are not safe and I will not support any advice that they are ok to use.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • MetricAmerica
                                                      Junior Member
                                                      • May 2016
                                                      • 26
                                                      #12
                                                      I trust my fellow Chinese, man, you have no trust, plus folks been using these units for years, that is the only reason I recently bought it...

                                                        Comment

                                                        • SunEagle
                                                          Super Moderator
                                                          • Oct 2012
                                                          • 15125
                                                          #13
                                                          Originally posted by MetricAmerica
                                                          I trust my fellow Chinese, man, you have no trust, plus folks been using these units for years, that is the only reason I recently bought it...
                                                          And a lot of people have walked across highways for years without ever getting hit by a car. That still does not make the practice safe or smart.

                                                          I really do not care if that crap worked for you or not. They are illegal and should not be used anywhere in the US back feeding the grid.

                                                            Comment

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