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Enphase's 'Tesla Rival' Solar Storage AC Battery Begins Australian Orders
North America following Q3 or Q4 I believe.
North America following Q3 or Q4 I believe.
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I usually wait a fair amount before adopting a new technology or method to see how it works out. Hate being a beta tester. -
Are they still >$1k/ea?Comment
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I saw they were priced around $850/1.2kWh ($850/battery) - Australian I believe (no pricing in USD or EUR). From reading articles and talks from the company they believe it's really for early adopters in general, but that in some markets (Australia) there will be better adoption. But the CEO made clear they're placing themselves in a market, in the next five years as the chemistry will drop significantly (he believes).
And it seems to be the case, Australia installers are reporting strong demand
http://reneweconomy.com.au/2016/enph...ralia-nz-96917
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It looks like the price is $850/kWh wholesale so $1k ea and $2.5k and up installed with the meter. Surprising there is a market for it at that price. Daily cycling at 80% capacity for 10 years gets you 3500kwh so $0.70/kWh.Last edited by sunnyguy; 05-10-2016, 03:10 AM.Comment
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That price may be low enough for people with the extra cash to try it out or for POCO's to test in in real life conditions but as you say it wouldn't be financially smart to pay $0.70/kWh even if it gives you some type of emergency backup. A small generator will provide more kWh for much less money over it's lifetime.Comment
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Well it won't give any emergency backup, that much is clear. It's for peak shaving and the like - optimizing your use. With feed in tariffs in Australia is might make sense for people (Enphase thinks there's an economic case for it), and here in California my installer and I are thinking it might make sense for NEM-2. We're going to install a few in my house so I can experiment with it, when it releases.
On costs meter is $580, maybe $600-$700 installed. If battery is $1k each retail, Enphase reps said 4-6kWh would be what most households they modeled would want, so say 4-6k cost + install. They were designed with ease of installation in mind (one person job!) so that shouldn't add too much overhead.Comment
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Sorry I was thinking about the claims made by Tesla for their battery system being able to provide some power if the grid went down.
I also must have missed the kWh /kw rating of the Enphase systems. I thought they would be more than 1kWh each. I believe the Tesla PowerWall is now rated 6.4kWh (was 7.5kWh before) so it does cost more for a single unit but still way too expensive for most people.Comment
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np ... that's a feature I'd love, it would be great if they sold a companion product for that. I used to work with a bunch of engineers that went to Enphase (the company not far from my house), maybe I should put a bug in their ear.
Tesla is a non starter IMO, they've already discontinued the 10kWh unit (I heard it was crap anyhow). I take the Powerwall as a afterthought product rather than something they're really serious about.I also must have missed the kWh /kw rating of the Enphase systems. I thought they would be more than 1kWh each. I believe the Tesla PowerWall is now rated 6.4kWh (was 7.5kWh before) so it does cost more for a single unit but still way too expensive for most people.
On Enphase they designed the system to be modular, you can add units as you go and as prices drop, 1.2kWh a drop. Which is great so I can get a few to play with, then as chemistry drops add more later and they all work together. With a cheap install price (and looks like an easy DIY if you have a nearby panel/jbox) it looks good to me. You don't even need the expensive Enphase cable, just regular AC.
Long term I think Enphase has positioning themselves well with this solution. I think I heard one of them say they expect the price of chemistry to drop by half by 2020.Comment
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Tesla is 2.5x cheaper than enphase and yes you need the separate solar and inverter but that should pay for itself in <10yrs. YouTube "diy powerwall" for the real bargains. There is also orison startup.Comment
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Unless you pay way over 25 cents / kWh that powerwall will not pay for itself in 10 years. As of now it is a gimmick for Tesla to get funding to help build their battery plant in NV. They have used slick advertising to gain attention but have been caught with false statements which is why they shut down the 10kw system and are reducing the output of their smaller system to 6.4kWh. Unless they cut that price down by 66% and make it real easy to install with any PV system then it will never be worth while.Comment
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No what I meant was the panels/inverter portion of the system would pay for itself which is why I think it is not unreasonable to directly compare the cost of an ac battery with a DC battery.
I don't think Tesla needs more demand for batteries, given the interest in EV packs. They did realize that the 10kw backup version was not economically viable and would have required a different cell production line for different chemistry. So that's pretty reasonable. Powerwall is still not a good deal for most but at least trending in the right direction.Last edited by sunnyguy; 05-10-2016, 10:16 PM.Comment
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I agree. People should calculate the ROI on a grid tie system without any type of batteries. In most cases (depending on the install cost) the number of years is low enough to justify the up front cost. Once you add any type of energy storage equipment into the calculation the ROI goes out to forever. Hopefully someone will come up with a low cost solution so that people can store the power they generate and not have to sell back to their POCO at wholesale rates.Comment
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Enphase says battery storage orders well ahead of target
“So we had particular forecasts, and we are nearly double that, in terms of initial orders. We were very optimistic, because we had spoken to our installers and customers, and it felt like the architecture we were bringing to the table – modular, simplicity, and the price point – and an energy management system – would be attractive.” Nahi says there is no doubt that the market is moving from solar-only installations to “energy systems” that will combine rooftop solar PV, battery storage and load controls.
importantly
So they're probably getting a lot of onesie twosie orders as people want to try it out first. Makes sense, the price is a little high for the economics yet, but the chemistry will come down in the next few years dramatically positioning it to be a good solution. I'll get a few when they release just to see what its like.Nahi says of the technology that early adopters, those buying the systems now, will “play with it”, but “what we want to get to is a point where people can flick on a switch, and they find it’s cheaper (than current options).
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