PowerJack grid tied inverters, worth a damn?

[KillerWatts]

Your judgement on this one is good. Batteries would be a major expense on top of what you already have, and with an even worse chance of ever getting any return. Not really more dangerous than the plug-and-play, but a whole bunch of new problems to learn about.

You could either cut your losses by not investing time into construction of panels or else use them to directly power something with DC just when the sun is shining.
Or you could repackage them one or two cells each as starter solar experimentation kits and sell them.

yeah, just on when the sun shines is what I am after. Do they make DC window shakers? If so where is a good source I might try? Thanks again!

[Mike90250]

Would it be possible to run a 120v leg thru a blocking diode and then to the wall plug that the PowerJack (or some other inverter) and air conditioner are plugged in to? Then I would have current for the inverter to sense and thefor function, but in the event of an outage it would be a second line of defense against back-feeding the lines?

AC don't work that way

[KillerWatts]

Your judgement on this one is good. Batteries would be a major expense on top of what you already have, and with an even worse chance of ever getting any return. Not really more dangerous than the plug-and-play, but a whole bunch of new problems to learn about.

You could either cut your losses by not investing time into construction of panels or else use them to directly power something with DC just when the sun is shining.
Or you could repackage them one or two cells each as starter solar experimentation kits and sell them.

The other idea in ok but I would just give them to my kids friends to mess with. How hard would it be to put something together that would allow a kid to charge their phone?

[Sunking]

yeah, just on when the sun shines is what I am after. Do they make DC window shakers? If so where is a good source I might try? Thanks again!

No not really an dit woul dtake a lot of batteries and more equipment to make it work. Don't think you wan to build a thousand watt panel for a couple of hours of cool air and buy a 500 pound battery.

[KillerWatts]

No not really an dit woul dtake a lot of batteries and more equipment to make it work. Don't think you wan to build a thousand watt panel for a couple of hours of cool air and buy a 500 pound battery.

No, the whole battery thing sounds like I big pain in the a$$.

[Mike90250]

You sound like you are the king of being AGAINST solar. Don't these cells last 20-30 years when denied oxygen? I still do not understand?

The oxygen in the air eats out the metal (aluminun) coating (the invisible front metal that collects the power from the entire surface of the cell) and moisture (water vapor) gets in there and then Galvanic Action takes care of the rest. Very few things block water vapor, the DOW resin mentioned earlier makes no mention of it's moisture resistance. That's notable. Tedlar does have a printed spec for water vapor resistance. (it's very good, and what most panels use on the backside) Plexiglass, polycarbonate, epoxys, paint, silicon sealer, wood, all leak lots of water vapor. Glass and metals don't.


We are trying to make you aware of the issues we are knowlaable about, so that a year down the road, you don't talk about solar being a BS rip-off and you lost a lot of $$

How far is it, to get power to your shop ? Maybe it's time to work up a spreadsheet, and put in:
2 generators (one to run, one to be broken)
Small generator, inverter/charger, small battery
Small generator, inverter/charger, small battery, Solar PV, charge controller.
Cost of materals & labor to pull power to shop and $1 daily for power

A generator can keep a battery charged, and run tools at the same time.
An inverter has to be large enough to supply a tool motor starting surge. That's going to cost.

We're not saying it can't be done, my shop/house was about $80K away from street side power, and now it's got $75K of solar gear there for all the normal stuff. Welder, well pump, house, saws, kitchen and laundry..... But it's not cheap. (but I'm "sticking it to the man").

[KillerWatts]

The oxygen in the air eats out the metal (aluminun) coating (the invisible front metal that collects the power from the entire surface of the cell) and moisture (water vapor) gets in there and then Galvanic Action takes care of the rest. Very few things block water vapor, the DOW resin mentioned earlier makes no mention of it's moisture resistance. That's notable. Tedlar does have a printed spec for water vapor resistance. (it's very good, and what most panels use on the backside) Plexiglass, polycarbonate, epoxys, paint, silicon sealer, wood, all leak lots of water vapor. Glass and metals don't.


We are trying to make you aware of the issues we are knowlaable about, so that a year down the road, you don't talk about solar being a BS rip-off and you lost a lot of $$

How far is it, to get power to your shop ? Maybe it's time to work up a spreadsheet, and put in:
2 generators (one to run, one to be broken)
Small generator, inverter/charger, small battery
Small generator, inverter/charger, small battery, Solar PV, charge controller.
Cost of materals & labor to pull power to shop and $1 daily for power

A generator can keep a battery charged, and run tools at the same time.
An inverter has to be large enough to supply a tool motor starting surge. That's going to cost.

We're not saying it can't be done, my shop/house was about $80K away from street side power, and now it's got $75K of solar gear there for all the normal stuff. Welder, well pump, house, saws, kitchen and laundry..... But it's not cheap. (but I'm "sticking it to the man").

Yeah I am just trying to run One air conditioner off of solar, just for the hell of it mainly, and to show people a real practical application of solar. The rest of my shop will be on grid. It is next to my other shop and I ran 240 to it the other day for my compressor. Just trying to run one ac unit can't possibly be this hard.

[Sunking]

Just trying to run one ac unit can't possibly be this hard.

Willing to bet $10 on it? It is not hard, just very hard on the wallet.

Here is an example let's say you live in Ashville NC, have a 1 ton window shaker of 12,000 BTU capacity (1-ton with a SEER of 10), want to run it from May 1 to September 31, 10 hours per day.Here is what it would take:

Panel wattage = 4000 watts
Battery capacity = 60 Kwh @ 48 volts 1250 Amp Hours.
80 Amp MPPT Charge Controller
3000 watt Sine Wave Inverter.

Just for the listed components will cost you around $16,000. Based on NC average Kwh cost of 13-cents the system will generate about $1.50 of electricity per day. So are you ready to sign up to win my $10 bet. I suggest you just send me my $10 because I just saved you thousands of dollars.

[billvon]

Yeah I am just trying to run One air conditioner off of solar, just for the hell of it mainly, and to show people a real practical application of solar.

If you want to do this, give something like this a try:

Sanyo mini-split AC set to a small temp differential (about a 300 watt draw)
Prosine 1000 watt (ok) or 1800 watt (better) inverter (24V)
860 watts PV (4 215-watt Kyocera KD215GX-LPU's)
Blue Sky Energy SB3048 charge controller
200AH / 24V battery bank (4 T105's are a fairly cheap way to go here)
The usual BOS stuff (breakers, cabling etc)

If you monitor such a system carefully and use it only when you have the solar to use it (i.e. don't rely on the battery to do much once the sun goes down) you could have a pretty good demo application for under $5K.

[electricsuperduty]

Hi there, I was just wondering if anyone has used these and weather or not hey worked well for you. It would be to make AC for a wood shop. Thanks!

I have used a 300 watt with island protection.
It did work, but you need the correct gauge wire to transmit 110 to the grid (house) or watts will fall in half.

I dont see any problem with using these as a suppliment. If there was one bult in USA would be better.

To answer your Forum question, everyone else just went off on how you cant or should not, I think they should be Legal as long as Island Protection is there. Then we would get higher quality inverters and JOBS to build them in USA.

[russ]

I have used a 300 watt with island protection.
It did work, but you need the correct gauge wire to transmit 110 to the grid (house) or watts will fall in half.

I dont see any problem with using these as a suppliment. If there was one bult in USA would be better.

To answer your Forum question, everyone else just went off on how you cant or should not, I think they should be Legal as long as Island Protection is there. Then we would get higher quality inverters and JOBS to build them in USA.

You really have no understanding of what the objections to the 'plug in to a socket and back feed' inverters are.

The forum does not in any way support the concept when it against code, law and acceptable practice.

They are not made in the US because they do not meet code - a small matter of legal liabilities. The ones sold on fleabay and such are buying a 'pig in a poke' as you have no idea what you are getting. You simply have the assurance of the sales person that they are good. To the sales person that is correct as every sale puts bucks in their pocket with zero recourse for the buyer.

[Sunking]

To answer your Forum question, everyone else just went off on how you cant or should not, I think they should be Legal as long as Island Protection is there. Then we would get higher quality inverters and JOBS to build them in USA.

That is just plain ole silly. No way can the USA compete with China, Mexico, and India.

[electricsuperduty]

You really have no understanding of what the objections to the 'plug in to a socket and back feed' inverters are.

The forum does not in any way support the concept when it against code, law and acceptable practice.

They are not made in the US because they do not meet code - a small matter of legal liabilities. The ones sold on fleabay and such are buying a 'pig in a poke' as you have no idea what you are getting. You simply have the assurance of the sales person that they are good. To the sales person that is correct as every sale puts bucks in their pocket with zero recourse for the buyer.

State your case instead of blastering.
1. What are the objections if there is island Protection.
2. Who said it would be against code if they were made to be up to code.
3. Sales, that's a tough one, China is full of liars. Thats why US made is important.

[electricsuperduty]

That is just plain ole silly. No way can the USA compete with China, Mexico, and India.

As is the entire Solar Industry

If there's a market, someone will fill it, someone will buy it.

[russ]

State your case instead of blastering.
1. What are the objections if there is island Protection.
2. Who said it would be against code if they were made to be up to code.
3. Sales, that's a tough one, China is full of liars. Thats why US made is important.

I have no idea what 'blastering' might mean and I can only guess you have zero electric background.

Island protection is one part - back feeding a circuit is another.

The US holds it's own in selling junk that is useless - there is legal protection for the buyer though which helps. Much of the junk sold on online auctions (fleabay etc) should never be sold - probably similar for flea markets.

You don't understand the word code - that is the first problem. Sunking can better explain that if he will.

None of the junk you are referring to is UL listed - how to use it connected to your home electric system?