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  • #16
    Thanks. The 3 panels are in series. The 12v batteries are in series for 24v (the mppt auto detected this. No reset) . A 24v true sine inverter arrives tomorrow. Not much else to do there. I guess next time I'll get the smaller gel batteries (I was told to avoid gel) to make 24v.

    sitting at 26.7v now waiting for inverter.
    Last edited by Gdwats; 08-13-2017, 07:10 PM.
    600W, 40A MPPT, 230AH FLA,24V Samlex 1500W

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    • #17
      Obviously this "system" was not "planned"...at all. Just bought some panels and tinkering around. Moving in a week and learned a lot from the tinkering for a diff system there plus this one. I suppose I could make it 48v, but money would be better spent on some 2,4 or 6v large AH cells for the new sys.
      600W, 40A MPPT, 230AH FLA,24V Samlex 1500W

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      • #18
        Good grief. I just looked around for some of those 2v cells at 450AH and they are around 250 to 300 dollars ea? Yikes.
        That is way too much for batteries. $3,600.00
        600W, 40A MPPT, 230AH FLA,24V Samlex 1500W

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        • #19
          The difference between the men and the boys is the price of their toys.
          Last edited by littleharbor; 08-14-2017, 07:47 AM.
          2.2kw Suntech mono, Classic 200, NEW Trace SW4024

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Gdwats View Post
            Good grief. I just looked around for some of those 2v cells at 450AH and they are around 250 to 300 dollars ea? Yikes.
            That is way too much for batteries. $3,600.00
            Batteries are not cheap but also a reason to go higher voltage as the equipment and batteries can be cheaper
            225ah has the same kWh at 24v as 450ah at 12v
            at 48vh you would only need 112ah.
            OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Gdwats View Post
              Good grief. I just looked around for some of those 2v cells at 450AH and they are around 250 to 300 dollars ea? Yikes.
              That is way too much for batteries. $3,600.00
              You are talking about a 24v 450Ah battery system that is rated 10kWh (24v x 450Ah = 10800wh). Which can safely deliver 2.7kWh a day.

              Based on most estimates a system (batteries. panels, CC and inverter) that delivers 1kWh a day can cost up to $3000.

              Most of us have stated that a solar / battery system is not cheap or will pay for itself but if there is a desire then there must be the finances to support one.

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              • #22
                I see these Trojan 467 Ah 6 volt batteries for $287 dollars apiece. You can have your 24 volt 467 amp hour battery bank for $1148.00

                Trojan MODEL L16P-AC - 6 Volt - 467 Ah

                2.2kw Suntech mono, Classic 200, NEW Trace SW4024

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                • #23
                  Reality bites
                  600W, 40A MPPT, 230AH FLA,24V Samlex 1500W

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Gdwats View Post
                    Reality bites
                    I'm having trouble following exactly what you want to accomplish. It sounds like (from this and other threads) you have 300 W on an 20 A MPPT controller, with a 24 V, 55 Ah battery (2 x 12 V SLA in series).

                    When you talk about growing the system, are you saying that you don't think the battery you have is big enough for your needs? Adding more panels is relatively easy, and will at least provide support for higher daytime loads. Your constraints on adding panels on the charge controller you already own are Isc < 20 A and Voc < 100 V.

                    If your frustration is that batteries are expensive... not much anyone can do to help you with that.
                    CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Gdwats View Post
                      Reality bites
                      Tastes more brown than green?

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Gdwats View Post
                        Thanks. The 3 panels are in series. The 12v batteries are in series for 24v (the mppt auto detected this. No reset) . A 24v true sine inverter arrives tomorrow. Not much else to do there. I guess next time I'll get the smaller gel batteries (I was told to avoid gel) to make 24v.

                        sitting at 26.7v now waiting for inverter.
                        Where did you come up with Gel batteries? No one here told you to use Gel batteries.

                        OK you have 300 watts of panel, or 3 x 100 Watt Panels wired in series. Got it.
                        You say you have a 20 amp controller, but what kind is it? PWM or MPPT? Make and Model number would be great.
                        2 x 12 volt 55 AH batteries wired in series for a total battery of 24 volts @ 55 AH
                        24 volt Inverter on the way, size unknown.

                        Do I have that right?

                        If al that is accurate here are my comments.

                        Nothing you have is really not matched to work well with everything. I also expect your Controller is PWM and if it is you have more problems. If it is PWM, your panels are improperly configured. With 3 panels, you only two options

                        1. Wire all the panels in parallel and use 12 volt battery..
                        2. With 2 panels in series, you can run 24 volt battery but you have to loose the 3rd panel.

                        If it is MPPT you are good to go with a 24 volt system, and with 300 watts of panel wired in series you must run 24 volts. So if you have a MPPT Controller, run 24 volt battery, then you have a matched panel wattage to controller with room to grow up to 500 watts of panel. Good there, but more problems ahead.

                        OK 300 watts into a 24 volt battery delivers around 12 to 13 amps of charge current. Batteries have a minimum and maximum amount of charge current they can accept. Wet flooded batteries about C/8 is maximum where C = the battery AH capacity. So if you had a 80 amp hour battery, 10 amps is about all you want to put into it for charging. AGM batteries can handle quite a bit more up to C/4 to C/2.

                        OK you have 24 volts @ 55 AH, and will hit them with 12 to 13 amps (C/4). That is a bit much. Are they Wet FLA batteries or AGM? If AGM you are OK, but still very small and undersized. Ideally for 12 to 13 amps of charge current you want a 120 to 150 AH battery which is 2 to 3 times the capacity.

                        Lastly you said a 24 volt Inverter is on the way. What size is it?

                        Batteries also have maximum discharge rates. Just happens to be the same as Max Charge Rate. A 55 AH battery can only deliver 7 to 10 amps of current without significant voltage loss. Well 10 amps x 24 volts = 240 watts is about all your small batteries can handle.

                        Get it? Your batteries are a problem. They are too small assuming you have a real MPPT CONTROLLER. No do not buy more of the same battery if you wish to expand. Use what you have for now, destroy the batteries you have now and get some use out of them. When you replace or up grade you want to find 120 to 150 AH batteries, Most likely they will not be 12 volt batteries but rather 6 or 8 volt batteries like a US Battery 8VGCE XC2 a 8 volt 155 AH battery, or a Trojan Ranger 160 a 8 volt 160 AH battery. Both of those batteries are high performance golf cart batteries and can handle up to a 24 volt 1000 watt Inverter. Those USB and Trojan batteries cost roughly $120 each or or about $350 for a 24 volt set.
                        Last edited by Sunking; 08-14-2017, 06:24 PM.
                        MSEE, PE

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Gdwats View Post
                          Reality bites
                          Welcome to the forum of less Illusion.
                          Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                          || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                          || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                          solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                          gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Sunking View Post

                            Where did you come up with Gel batteries? No one here told you to use Gel batteries.
                            someone provided me with a link to 2v cells and they were all gel.

                            OK you have 300 watts of panel, or 3 x 100 Watt Panels wired in series. Got it.
                            yes
                            You say you have a 20 amp controller, but what kind is it? PWM or MPPT? Make and Model number would be great.

                            Renogy Rover 20A MPPT

                            2 x 12 volt 55 AH batteries wired in series for a total battery of 24 volts @ 55 AH SLA DCYCLE.
                            24 volt Inverter on the way, size unknown.

                            inverter here. 500W pure sine 24v.

                            Do I have that right? Yes

                            If al that is accurate here are my comments.

                            Nothing you have is really not matched to work well with everything. I also expect your Controller is PWM and if it is you have more problems. If it is PWM, your panels are improperly configured.

                            for the nth time, MPPT
                            With 3 panels, you only two options

                            1. Wire all the panels in parallel and use 12 volt battery..
                            2. With 2 panels in series, you can run 24 volt battery but you have to loose the 3rd panel.

                            If it is MPPT you are good to go with a 24 volt system, and with 300 watts of panel wired in series you must run 24 volts. So if you have a MPPT Controller, run 24 volt battery, then you have a matched panel wattage to controller with room to grow up to 500 watts of panel. Good there, but more problems ahead.

                            OK 300 watts into a 24 volt battery delivers around 12 to 13 amps of charge current. Batteries have a minimum and maximum amount of charge current they can accept. Wet flooded batteries about C/8 is maximum where C = the battery AH capacity. So if you had a 80 amp hour battery, 10 amps is about all you want to put into it for charging. AGM batteries can handle quite a bit more up to C/4 to C/2.

                            OK you have 24 volts @ 55 AH, and will hit them with 12 to 13 amps (C/4). That is a bit much. Are they Wet FLA batteries or AGM? If AGM you are OK, but still very small and undersized. Ideally for 12 to 13 amps of charge current you want a 120 to 150 AH battery which is 2 to 3 times the capacity.

                            Lastly you said a 24 volt Inverter is on the way. What size is it?

                            500W

                            Batteries also have maximum discharge rates. Just happens to be the same as Max Charge Rate. A 55 AH battery can only deliver 7 to 10 amps of current without significant voltage loss. Well 10 amps x 24 volts = 240 watts is about all your small batteries can handle.

                            Get it? Your batteries are a problem. They are too small assuming you have a real MPPT CONTROLLER. No do not buy more of the same battery if you wish to expand. Use what you have for now, destroy the batteries you have now and get some use out of them. When you replace or up grade you want to find 120 to 150 AH batteries, Most likely they will not be 12 volt batteries but rather 6 or 8 volt batteries like a US Battery 8VGCE XC2 a 8 volt 155 AH battery, or a Trojan Ranger 160 a 8 volt 160 AH battery. Both of those batteries are high performance golf cart batteries and can handle up to a 24 volt 1000 watt Inverter. Those USB and Trojan batteries cost roughly $120 each or or about $350 for a 24 volt set.
                            thanks for the battery link
                            600W, 40A MPPT, 230AH FLA,24V Samlex 1500W

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              2x 12v 55AH SLA deep cycle batteries in series
                              Renogy 20A MPPT rover, yes mppt. Max100v, 20A
                              500W 24v inverter
                              3x100W panels in series.

                              Thanks for the batteries links
                              600W, 40A MPPT, 230AH FLA,24V Samlex 1500W

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Gdwats View Post
                                2x 12v 55AH SLA deep cycle batteries in series That means you have a 24 volt 55 AH battery
                                Renogy 20A MPPT rover, yes mppt. Max100v, 20A. That will work on a 24 volt battery. At full power is 300 watts / 24 volts = 12.5 amps. Panel wattage can grow up to 400 watts.
                                500W 24v inverter. A little large for your batteries. As long as you do not demand more than 300 watts, you can get away with it.
                                3x100W panels in series. That is fine with your controller. 3 panels in series is all your controller can handle. To expand, you can only use either 1 panel or 3 panels. 2 will not work because that would lever you with 5 panels, and you cannot use 5 panels for 24 volt battery with your controller.

                                Thanks for the batteries links
                                You are welcome. See comments in RED

                                MSEE, PE

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