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  • #31
    Originally posted by foo1bar View Post
    I'm not debating - I'm correcting your factually inaccurate statements and challenging you to back up with references the BS you're posting.
    OK time to take the gloves off and put you into your place

    SAE, Marine, and NEC all have minimum size wire requirements and I have showed you the proof and you still deny it.

    For a 20 Amp Circuit, both SAE and Marinerequire a minimum 14 AWG, and NEC require 12 AWG. Look it up again with my 3 links above. The reason SAE and Marine allow a smaller wire is because they use a 105 degree cable insulation. and NEC uses 60, 75, and 90 degree insulation. Marine goes one step further with a PERFORMANCE Spec of 10 and 3% voltage drop limits. NEC and SAE does not do that. Guess what? When you work with low voltage DC you had better be using a performance based spec because it exceeds minimum safety requirements. With low voltage you had better be limiting losses to 3% or less. Otherwise you are a foolbar HACK.

    So to make life easy on DIY I posted a foolbar proof table from Marine standards that can used because it meets the objective 3% Voltage drop which aligns perfectly with low voltage solar applications. Takes all the worry out of cable insulation types. It aligns perfectly with my own Cheat Sheets and does not require anyone to go to some on-line calculator that requires you to enter a lot of variables they may not understand and get wrong. The table is foolbar proof and even you can use it if you pulled your heard out. A 20 amp circuit in your home can go to unlimited amount of receptacles, plug enough toys in and the breaker will trip. The breaker is there to protect the line that is connected to the breaker and nothing else downstream. They are not there to protect line cords, equipment, or to prevent electrocution.

    I have proved you wrong with facts jack. You want to go off on a rant that your clock radio, wife's favorite toy, and your toaster oven is connected to a 20 amp circuit uses 16 or 18 gauge wire just proves you are ignorant and do not know the difference between a Supply Circuit and a Power Cord. In your mind they are both the same when in fact they are not.

    If you have not noticed but folks like you that give unsafe advice get banned real fast. So keep it up and you will find yourself on the outside looking in. You are no pro or even in the trade. If you were you would know better.

    Only you got right in this thread is the meter does not require a 20 amp circuit. It is just asking for trouble, but if you are going to use a 20 amp breaker then you must use either a 14 AWG with 105 degree insulation, otherwise 12 AWG. You stepped in a pile of poop. You did that and asked for what you got, not me. I suggest you shut up and let it go.
    Last edited by Sunking; 03-14-2017, 05:00 PM.
    MSEE, PE

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Sunking View Post
      OK time to take the gloves off and put you into your place
      IOW you're going to be insulting and still not actually provide any real references.


      SAE, Marine, and NEC all have minimum size wire requirements and I have showed you the proof and you still deny it.
      NEC table isn't applicable since an RV is not under NEC (if you think it is, who is the AHJ that has made it law?)
      Marine isn't applicable (assuming that link is actually an accurate representation of the standard) because it isn't a boat.
      An SAE standard probably *would* be applicable.
      BUT I see nothing of the link you provided to an electrical supply house that indicates that table is actually part of a standard.
      I gave numerous other links that give different answers, so you'll forgive me if I'm skeptical of your single link.


      For a 20 Amp Circuit, both SAE and Marinerequire a minimum 14 AWG,
      Please provide citation for SAE - something more than a single table that sort-of supports you.
      With NEC you can easily point to NEC's table 310.16 (or whatever the number is) - and there are plenty of places that have that info.
      Is there even one that is the same as what you found that you say is from SAE?

      I have proved you wrong with facts jack.
      No, you still haven't shown a quote of mine that's factually incorrect.

      If you have not noticed but folks like you that give unsafe advice get banned real fast. So keep it up and you will find yourself on the outside looking in.
      And what unsafe advice did I give?
      My advice to the OP was to use 12AWG with a 20A fuse/breaker or to use 16AWG and a 10A fuse.
      And I even agreed with you that a 1A fuse instead of 10A would be a better choice - since it'd be the same cost, the very small additional protection would be for free so why not.
      What's surprising to me is that you aren't reprimanded by the mods. I don't think I've insulted you once - yet you've insulted me multiple times. And I haven't made a factually incorrect statement - and you have.

      You are no pro or even in the trade. If you were you would know better.
      I'm not in the auto industry - and never claimed to be.
      If I were I'd have a better idea of where to find a definitive answer on what SAE says (if anything) about OCPD and wire size.
      Based on what you've said in the past you're not in the trade either - your expertise is in batteries and telco electrical systems, not automotive.

      You stepped in a pile of poop. You did that and asked for what you got, not me. I suggest you shut up and let it go.
      What I've asked for is that you show what I said that was factually incorrect and the documentation to show what was incorrect.
      Since you aren't able to do that in numerous posts I think you're right that I need to just let it go.

      Comment


      • #33
        I rest my case. You are ignorant and dangerous. You are not capable of understanding SAE standards do not meet the performance demands of low voltage power. In some aspects nor does NEC. Marine using 3% voltage fits the ticket and a perfect fit. It meets and exceeds both SAE and NEC. It is FOOLBAR PROOF. So simple a child can understand.

        I never said you did not work in the auto industry. I said you do not work in any industry that involves electrical power because if you did would know better. You are right I have worked in telecom, utility electric generation, PV solar, commercial, and industrial electrical distribution you left out. Even sat on NEC code panels and have teached electrical codes to students.

        I even gave you the SAE standard and you reject it. Try reading it. Both Marine and SAE minimum requirement is 14 AWG on a 20 amp breaker. I give you some credit, your username is right but spelled wrong. It is spelled FUBAR. Look it up. Perhaps you should change it to SNAFU or DUNNOCHIT
        Last edited by Sunking; 03-14-2017, 09:40 PM.
        MSEE, PE

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Sunking View Post
          I rest my case.
          OK.

          I never said you did not work in the auto industry.
          Well, that's what we're talking about here - so what other industry would you mean?

          I said you do not work in any industry that involves electrical power
          Well that's not what you actually said - but if that's what you want to believe, there's nothing I can do to convince you otherwise.

          I even gave you the SAE standard and you reject it.
          If that is a standard from SAE, what is the name of that standard? or the chapter or table number that this table is coming from?
          As far as I can tell that page isn't from an SAE standard - it's just a table with SAE sizes on it that a electrical supply house has created and posted.
          So I'd say it has as much weight as the 4 links I posted.
          Feel free to point to another place that has that table (or similar).
          If it were truly a standard from SAE I think you'd see it all over - just like you can find many many copies of NEC's table.

          But as I said - I'm letting this go.
          If you choose to reply again, I challenge you to actually do it without an insult.

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