Help me decide!

[Sdfan13]

Hello everyone!
First of all, thanks for any and all insight. I've already learned quite a bit just from reading this forum for the last couple days.

I'm looking to purchase my solar system, and I think I've narrowed it down to a couple different options - but I'm also open to any and all feedback.

Option 1: 18 SunPower 327 Watt panels with integrated SunPower Microinverters and Consumption Monitoring - SunPower Equinox System. Quoted $25,604

Option 2: 18 LG NeON 2 Series 320 Watt panels with SolarEdge Power Optimizers. Quoted $23,000

Both systems are giving me about 110% of my current usage (expecting to add electric car in the future).

I don't have any shading issues, and I'm really torn between whether to go with micro inverters or with Solar Edge Optimizers or SMA Sunny Boy.

Also, from what I've read on these forums so far, it seems that the premium price that Sunpower charges isn't worth it when compared to another well regarded panel manufacturers like LG. But I haven't read any discussion on the Sunpower Equinox system (since it's so new).

Any and all help/responses would be greatly appreciated as I continue my research.

Thanks!

[J.P.M.]

Something of a consensus around here, but by no means universal is that with no shading problems but for several reasons, string inverters are the way to go. As for Sunpower - good quality but I'd not buy in on their latest hype any more than their old hype. Their stuff is overpriced and overkill for most applications.

Quality systems professionally installed will produce about equal annual output pretty much regardless of panel mfg. for as long as you're likely to own it - Sunpower, LG or any other quality equipment.

As for the LG quote you have, depending on where you are, that seems way overpriced. In my neighborhood, LG systems are running more than a buck a Watt less than S.P. or ~ $3.50/Watt or less.

Try getting quotes for lower power LG panels. The quality and annual output per installed Watt will be similar. It's the (electrical) size of the system that counts, not the (electrical) size of each panel.

[randomuser]

I have 17 LG 320W panels on my roof, with SolarEdge inverter. The same system had quotes from $17,500 - $25,000. I'm not someone who has much experience with home contract work and was surprised by such a large variance. I agree with JPM, try getting some more quotes. Even if you want SunPower, shop around.

[Sdfan13]

Something of a consensus around here, but by no means universal is that with no shading problems but for several reasons, string inverters are the way to go. As for Sunpower - good quality but I'd not buy in on their latest hype any more than their old hype. Their stuff is overpriced and overkill for most applications.

Quality systems professionally installed will produce about equal annual output pretty much regardless of panel mfg. for as long as you're likely to own it - Sunpower, LG or any other quality equipment.

As for the LG quote you have, depending on where you are, that seems way overpriced. In my neighborhood, LG systems are running more than a buck a Watt less than S.P. or ~ $3.50/Watt or less.

Try getting quotes for lower power LG panels. The quality and annual output per installed Watt will be similar. It's the (electrical) size of the system that counts, not the (electrical) size of each panel.

Thank you so much for the response! I will definitely be shopping around a bit more since I have already learned so much just within the short time I have been researching. I'm up in North County San Diego. Are you local San Diego?

What would be your ideal system assuming no shade? Panel, power optimizers (if applicable), inverter - what brands?

[sirguy77]

You have several good installers in the North County area of San Diego. PM for unbiased info..

[Sdfan13]

I have 17 LG 320W panels on my roof, with SolarEdge inverter. The same system had quotes from $17,500 - $25,000. I'm not someone who has much experience with home contract work and was surprised by such a large variance. I agree with JPM, try getting some more quotes. Even if you want SunPower, shop around.

Do you have the SolarEdge power optimizers as well? Thanks for the response.

[ButchDeal]

Do you have the SolarEdge power optimizers as well? Thanks for the response.

SolarEdge inverters do NOT work WITHOUT the optimizers. The inverter has no MPPT of its own. It is a complete system, optimizer and inverter work together.

So if randomuser doesn't have solaredge optimizers then the solaredge inverter would be useless.

[Sdfan13]

SolarEdge inverters do NOT work WITHOUT the optimizers. The inverter has no MPPT of its own. It is a complete system, optimizer and inverter work together.

So if randomuser doesn't have solaredge optimizers then the solaredge inverter would be useless.

Understood thank you for clarifying.

So from what I've read, many are torn between SMA and SolarEdge. How about you guys? Would you go with SolarEdge or SMA? I'm more leaning towards SMA Sunny Boy since there would be less points of failure than the Solar Edge + Optimizers at each panel. I think the individual panel monitoring would be cool, but I don't think I'd be checking it 2-3 years down the road let alone 15-20.

Thoughts?

Thanks all for the responses!

[ButchDeal]

it isn't so much that you are not planning to look at the monitoring. Most of what is important is automated. SolarEdge can send you an email if there is any oddities.
Though many people don't pay any attention to the dash lights in their car constantly, they are their to tell you early that something is failing.
Most PV modules have a 25 year performance warranty and there have been few claims on those over the years. Mostly as there is very little way to know that one is underperforming. Except with module level monitoring it is trivial to show that a module has started underperforming (or degraded beyond its warranty).

besides the monitoring there is the added performance.
LG modules are rated now +3%,-0%, in other words if you buy 320w modules, all of them should be rated at least 320w but some will be as much as 329.6w
all the modules should fall someplace between 320 and 329.6 watts
individual module MPPT can take better advantage of the added performance there.

then besides that you have the safety features of rapid shutdown and powerwall upgrade ability,

[Sdfan13]

it isn't so much that you are not planning to look at the monitoring. Most of what is important is automated. SolarEdge can send you an email if there is any oddities.
Though many people don't pay any attention to the dash lights in their car constantly, they are their to tell you early that something is failing.
Most PV modules have a 25 year performance warranty and there have been few claims on those over the years. Mostly as there is very little way to know that one is underperforming. Except with module level monitoring it is trivial to show that a module has started underperforming (or degraded beyond its warranty).

besides the monitoring there is the added performance.
LG modules are rated now +3%,-0%, in other words if you buy 320w modules, all of them should be rated at least 320w but some will be as much as 329.6w
all the modules should fall someplace between 320 and 329.6 watts
individual module MPPT can take better advantage of the added performance there.

then besides that you have the safety features of rapid shutdown and powerwall upgrade ability,

Wow - great points and definitely some things I had never thought of. So I'm assuming you would go with Solar Edge over SMA after the points made?

Also, off topic but I've been comparing quotes and had a question. Should I be looking at AC production to offset my bill? For example, I currently average about 800kWh per month. Should I be looking for a system that produces this amount in DC or AC? I've been quoted both ways by different companies.

Any advice would be appreciated!

[ButchDeal]

Wow - great points and definitely some things I had never thought of. So I'm assuming you would go with Solar Edge over SMA after the points made?

Also, off topic but I've been comparing quotes and had a question. Should I be looking at AC production to offset my bill? For example, I currently average about 800kWh per month. Should I be looking for a system that produces this amount in DC or AC? I've been quoted both ways by different companies.

Any advice would be appreciated!

yes I would prefer solarEdge.
Others on here clearly disagree and the argument to me is somewhat silly: less parts to go bad but very little monitoring to tell if anything has started to fail...
Stick your head in the sand method, ok I guess ignorance is bliss.


If your goal is to save money then look at dollars not AC or DC. In other words, time of use and tiers often allows much less production to save the most money.
If your goal is carbon neutral then AC production
if the goal is future growth and savings, (possibly adding a future EV or something), then go for largest allowed AC production, often 110% of average consumption.

[J.P.M.]

Thank you so much for the response! I will definitely be shopping around a bit more since I have already learned so much just within the short time I have been researching. I'm up in North County San Diego. Are you local San Diego?

What would be your ideal system assuming no shade? Panel, power optimizers (if applicable), inverter - what brands?

You're welcome.

Zip is 92026. Before you do anything else, like more quotes, I'd suggest you download and read a copy of "Solar Power Your Home for Dummies", free on the net. Read it before you go further. Knowledge is power. Do not rely on peddlers for information. Get your own. Negotiations will go better when peddlers realize your more savvy than most - and BTW - everything is negotiable.

If your goal is to reduce your electric bill in the most cost effective way(s) possible, you knowledge quest will lead you to discover that PV is about the most expensive way to reduce that bill. Some folks smarter than most discovered the best way to save the most $$ was to do the most cost effective stuff first, not the least. Do the cheap stuff (conservation, etc.) before the expensive stuff (solar). After that, get a real handle on how much electricity you use and the use patterns by time of day, month and season. Then decide what presolar measures you want to take. Bonus: Any PV system you do eventually acquire will probably be smaller and thus less expensive.

Or, you can be like many other folks I know and simply throw expensive and oversized PV at a self inflicted high electric bill and think they're getting even w/ SDG & E.

To your question: My ideal system (note, for me only) is one that is safe, fit for my purposes, as reliable as possible, as serviceable as possible and as cost effective as possible within the financial parameters I set. The reality for me is a tradeoff of all the above. Reading the book will help you with those decisions and choices you think most advantageous for you.

Once you get educated by reading, fill in the knowledge gaps with questions here, but don't use this forum as your first or only source - IMO, too many blowhards, agendas and questionable opinions thought to be fact, or from folks with skin in the game - mostly well intentioned stuff that often still paves the road to hell. Once you get educated you may agree.

As for oversizing, I'd suggest considering making sure your loads will be increasing. Like most anything else, perceived low electric bills will probably increase usage. While perhaps not bad in itself (but not inherently good either), oversizing can tend to be self defeating because the lower bills it enables often lead to increased usage, a corollary to the idea that to get people to use less of something, raise the price of it. Most everyone who shows up here looking for advice cites a future EV as a reason for oversizing a PV system. I don't doubt their veracity for one second, and it's NOMB or money, but I wonder how much of the desire for an EV is more backing into a justification for oversizing. Maybe a little bit ?

[Sunking]

If your goal is to reduce your electric bill in the most cost effective way(s) possible, you knowledge quest will lead you to discover that PV is about the most expensive way to reduce that bill. Some folks smarter than most discovered the best way to save the most $$ was to do the most cost effective stuff first, not the least.

Amend brother. The public at large are fools and will believe anything. Science, math, technology in public schools has been replaced with ideology and voodoo. Only private schools teach critical thinking, economics, math, and science. How do you think you got Obama and healthcare?

[solarix]

I've installed hundreds of inverters over the last 8 years. SMA SunnyBoy is the only brand I haven't had failures with.

[J.P.M.]

You have several good installers in the North County area of San Diego. PM for unbiased info..

To the OP: To that end, and NOMB but from someone with no skin in the game, after you get educated I'd suggest you stick with licensed, established, local electrical contractors who have been around at least 10+ years and have sold/installed solar for at least 5, at least as a start for more quotes. There are other, newer and probably qualified vendors, but also a lot of Larry with a ladder types who know less than squat about solar. For a lot of reasons, I'd also avoid the big national outfits. FWIW, the likes of the SolarCitys and Vivants are typically some of the least communicative and usually not the highest quality.

The established folks have several advantages like knowing how to survive in business, how to run a project, have an infrastructure already set up, have other things and lines to make a living with after solar shakes out, and a biggie in my book, know the value and fragility of a reputation and a customer.

After reviewing and recommending approval to my HOA board for ~ 95 + residential PV installs, dealing with about 30 vendors (more than a few of which are now out of business), and seeing the good and the bad over 8 years or so through inspection of most every one of those installs, I've found that, IMO anyway, the known electrical contractors give the best chance (note - not guarantee) of quality work. Smart money goes after most bang for the buck, not necessarily low buck. Most bang for the buck is in quality.

Also, and, in spite of what some say, my experience has shown me that known vendors can be as price competitive as any other vendor with some negotiation. In the end, you get what you negotiate, and with sharp but fair negotiation you have the best chance of getting close to what you pay for.

BTW: PM's are no more around here.

[J.P.M.]

Only private schools teach critical thinking, economics, math, and science.

Maybe, maybe not, at least IMO. I've seen and talked to children and the parents of children who send them to private schools started mostly, as best as I can determine, so the precious little fruit of their loins won't need to suffer the realities and indignities of attending classes and growing up with someone who doesn't look like they do or necessarily shares the same values (Oh - the humanity !!).

Don't get me wrong, the U.S.is going, or is already in, the toilet, and I'm in some serious mourning for my country.

BTW: that decline started long before the current administration. There's enough blame to go around. I started by looking in the mirror.

With respect to schools: The public education system is both a consequence and a result of the decline of the U.S. to 3d or 4th world status. However, and being a product of private education by the Society of Jesus through secondary school, I'm not real impressed with much of what passes for education in the U.S. these days, either public or private. Most, but perhaps not all of it seems little more than daycare or less, at least from what I'm seeing come out of it.

Back on topic.