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  • new solar system wattage loss

    I am building my own solar panels with a voltage of 16 volts approximately 30 watts.
    I am using a sun grid tie inverter 250 watts and with a lead line of 20 feet I am producing 25 to 28 watts on a kill a watt meter which is pretty good considering a outside temperature of 80-85 degrees.
    My problem is when I moved the panels out to my yard 150 feet away my wattage dropped to ( 6x30 watt = 180 watts) 40 watts.
    I am using a heavy 14 ga. extension cord to connect the panels to my inverter.
    I then used a 14x2 ga. low voltage line on each leg of the panel and my wattage increased to 100 watts.
    Will increasing the wire to a 12-10x2 ga. increase the wattage and lower the line loss???

  • #2
    Yes Vic it will lower voltage losses.

    Someday you will figure out why grid tied inverter systems use high voltages of 300 to 500 volts. It is the same reason utilities use voltages up to 1 million volts. You will also realize that system you have spent your hard earned money on only generates 2 or 3 cents worth of electricity per day, saving you a whole $1 bill per month on your electric bill if you are lucky. Will not even pay for the wire you are using.

    At the distances you are using with the power and voltage you are running you need to be using 1/0 cable. It cost about $2/foot. So you will need around 300 feet of it.
    MSEE, PE

    Comment


    • #3
      line loss

      Originally posted by Sunking View Post
      Yes Vic it will lower voltage losses.

      Someday you will figure out why grid tied inverter systems use high voltages of 300 to 500 volts. It is the same reason utilities use voltages up to 1 million volts. You will also realize that system you have spent your hard earned money on only generates 2 or 3 cents worth of electricity per day, saving you a whole $1 bill per month on your electric bill if you are lucky. Will not even pay for the wire you are using.

      At the distances you are using with the power and voltage you are running you need to be using 1/0 cable. It cost about $2/foot. So you will need around 300 feet of it.
      I am running a 650 watt system total and have with turning off the current robbing pwr supplys in my house
      and just running 2 fridgs my 2 direct tv boxes and satellite internet that takes a lot of power I have cut my daytime usage down from 1500-2000khw to 600khw a month and my meter runs backwards.

      Comment


      • #4
        So in Arizona you can connect a system using DIY panels and the connection you described to the grid? Legally?
        [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by vicsrc View Post
          I am building my own solar panels with a voltage of 16 volts approximately 30 watts.
          I am using a sun grid tie inverter 250 watts and with a lead line of 20 feet I am producing 25 to 28 watts on a kill a watt meter which is pretty good considering a outside temperature of 80-85 degrees.
          My problem is when I moved the panels out to my yard 150 feet away my wattage dropped to ( 6x30 watt = 180 watts) 40 watts.
          I am using a heavy 14 ga. extension cord to connect the panels to my inverter.
          I then used a 14x2 ga. low voltage line on each leg of the panel and my wattage increased to 100 watts.
          Will increasing the wire to a 12-10x2 ga. increase the wattage and lower the line loss???
          So you measure 30 watts at the panel, 25-28 watts after the inverter and 20 feet of DC line? But then when you moved the panels farther you got either 40 or 180 watts?

          If so move em further away!

          Comment


          • #6
            electricity must be measured differently in Arazona?/ how you get a 650 w of panels to produce enoughh power that they can overcome a usage of 600kwh a month and then with whats left over make the meter run backwoods??

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by vicsrc View Post
              and just running 2 fridgs my 2 direct tv boxes and satellite internet that takes a lot of power I have cut my daytime usage down from 1500-2000khw to 600khw a month and my meter runs backwards.
              Not going to happen there Vic. You have two problems.

              1. One you cannot use the inverter you have because is not listed for the use you are using it for. Same for your DIY panels they cannot be used either.

              2. In AZ to generate that much energy is going to require a conventional 9000 watt Grid Tied System.

              You are pretty much wasting your time and money.
              MSEE, PE

              Comment


              • #8
                VICSRC all your figures are screwed up. nothing makes sense??

                Comment


                • #9
                  AZ solar problem

                  I searched for information on on using diy panels and found no ruling.
                  I live 3 miles into the desert and have no city on county utilities to provide water or sewer.
                  The only thing I have is electricity that continues to increase in price for no reason.
                  My local electric provider reads my meter monthly and in the last 5 months have said nothing about my panels.
                  I am on a leveling plan that charges a set amount monthly to cover the higher usage during or long summer months.
                  for the last year I paid $225.00 a month into my plan and in October they raised my amount to $337.00 and the usage had remained the same.
                  Now to clear up what has confused everone.
                  I have a total of 25 panels from 30 to 145 watts.
                  All the panels have a 20ft. lead wire and using a kill a watt meter read close to the stated output.
                  I moved 6 panels 150 feet away from the grid tie inverter using a 14x2 low voltage line used for out door garden lighting and had a tremendous line loss.
                  The only question I was asking was if I used a heavier wire would I gain back my line loss.
                  If you had read the previous post about how I had lowered my khw usage by turning off all the current robbing devices in my home perhaps you would not be so harsh with your responces.
                  I posted on this site for help not to be ridiculed. I have worked in the field of electronics for 28 year so I am no dummy when it comes to putting systems together.
                  I will leave this forum now and continue on my own.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Wire has loss.

                    Longer wire has more loss

                    Heavier (thicker) wire has less loss.

                    If you add length, then to keep losses the same, you need to have thicker wire too,
                    there is a link in my .sig to a great solar wire loss spreadsheet. Read all the notes at the
                    bottom of it before useing it.

                    Mike (sorry to be late to the party)
                    Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by vicsrc View Post
                      I have a total of 25 panels from 30 to 145 watts.
                      All the panels have a 20ft. lead wire and using a kill a watt meter read close to the stated output.
                      OK. A kill-a-watt is an AC meter, so this must be after the inverter. It's also a 120 volt meter, so it can't be a 240VAC inverter. Which inverter are you using? The only 120V grid tie inverter I know of is the Microsine and those haven't been made for a while.

                      I moved 6 panels 150 feet away from the grid tie inverter using a 14x2 low voltage line used for out door garden lighting and had a tremendous line loss.
                      The only question I was asking was if I used a heavier wire would I gain back my line loss.
                      Some of it, yes. It depends on how your system is configured.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        inverter

                        I am using 2 different DC to AC grid tie inverters at 10 to 30 volts 250 watts max and a 22-60 volt 600 watt max
                        Thanks to Mike90250 for answering my question

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          VICSRC you have 28yrs as an electronics tech and you are on here asking if using thicker wire would reduce line losses??? That is difficult to understand . Im an electronics tech for almost 50 yrs but knew about thin versus thick wires and their losses at high school

                          All the panels have a 20ft. lead wire and using a kill a watt meter read close to the stated output.
                          I have never seen a killa watt meter that could do that.??

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by john p View Post
                            VICSRC you have 28yrs as an electronics tech and you are on here asking if using thicker wire would reduce line losses??? That is difficult to understand .
                            You read my mind.
                            MSEE, PE

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              ???

                              Is it wrong to ask the general public to get a general opinion of what is being used?
                              I dont understand why everyone has to be so high and mighty when someone new ask a simple question to confirm what he thought to be true...
                              PLEASE LEAVE ME ALONE
                              I dont need to hear from anyone else..







                              Originally posted by john p View Post
                              VICSRC you have 28yrs as an electronics tech and you are on here asking if using






                              thicker wire would reduce line losses??? That is difficult to understand . Im an electronics tech for almost 50 yrs but knew about thin versus thick wires and their losses at high school

                              All the panels have a 20ft. lead wire and using a kill a watt meter read close to the stated output.
                              I have never seen a killa watt meter that could do that.??

                              Comment

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