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  • #16
    We had the second zoning meeting, full township. Some people that couldn't make the first meeting,
    worried about erosion on the hill under the panels (rain is common in IL). Grass doesn't grow so
    well shaded by panels, I have to be careful of this myself, give up work when things get muddy.

    The array plan is to drive steel stakes, no concrete. I wonder if the outfit from CA planning this,
    understands how much difficulty the limestone here can cause?

    Its now clear that a new 3 phase 33 KV feeder would be required for the array just over the hill. At
    least this should keep awful transients off our local 12KV single phase line.

    The township this time voted a recommendation NOT to approve either zoning. On to the county
    board meeting in a couple days. Bruce Roe

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by jflorey2 View Post

      Rule 21 ...

      Phase three will require the ability to communicate with the utility, set power limits (to prevent overgeneration) and support remotely-commanded grid stability functionality. This is still a work in progress.
      Wouldn't that require the owner to have an internet connection or would the remote commands come thru the grid tie connection?. If it does, I'm with SunKing here. Seems like that would amount to a being forced into having an internet connection if you wanted it or not. And if so, I bet the Internet Service Providers are smiling about this idea. All new homes in CA have to have solar ... and by virtue of Rule 21 ... Internet too.
      Last edited by Matrix; 05-30-2018, 09:47 AM.
      285Wx9 / MNClassic 150 / CSW4024 / TrojanL16H-ACx4

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Matrix View Post
        Wouldn't that require the owner to have an internet connection or would the remote commands come thru the grid tie connection?
        I'm in one of those advanced inverter studies here in Phoenix and they do not use my internet connection with this config. If the installs go large scale, I'm not sure what would be the communication norm then.


        Dave W. Gilbert AZ
        6.63kW grid-tie owner

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        • #19
          Of course the utilities need control of generation. But what an opportunity for abuse. The law may
          say, install certain percentage of RE. But then if RE regularly gets turned off, it defeats the intent
          and greatly reduces the chance of profitability. Investor/operators will be less inclined to go RE.

          For now my 15KW grid tie contract has no such terms. None of my old appliances are capable of
          external control. Bruce Roe

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Matrix View Post
            Wouldn't that require the owner to have an internet connection or would the remote commands come thru the grid tie connection?
            Phase three will require an internet connection, although as it stands right now the utility will provide that via PLC or a similar means.
            And if so, I bet the Internet Service Providers are smiling about this idea. All new homes in CA have to have solar ... and by virtue of Rule 21 ... Internet too.
            Nope. They just have to have a connection to the utility, not internet. (Customers can't use the utilities PLC to "surf the web.")

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by azdave View Post
              I'm in one of those advanced inverter studies here in Phoenix and they do not use my internet connection with this config.
              You almost certainly have phase 1 inverters. That's what's being sold now. Communications is standardized in phase 2, required in phase 3.

              Comment


              • #22
                We had the county zoning meeting, the the 2 requests for rezoning in my area were continued for a
                month. I picked up the revised mapping to see what is changed. I see they moved array sections to
                give some setback from the neighbors property. This I had recommended before.

                Each of these proposals is a pair of 2MW projects. Anyone know what sort of inverters could be
                used? I have seen mentioned 65KW 3 phase inverters. What input DC voltage and output AC
                voltage likely will be used?

                The drawings still show connection to a 12KV single phase line. The minimum possible
                I think is 33KV 3 phase, which the PoCo mentioned in preliminary communications. If
                inverters don't output 33KV, there will need to be transformers. The 3 phase line does
                not exist at the array nearest me, so construction would be needed to erect one. Bruce Roe
                Last edited by bcroe; 06-12-2018, 07:52 PM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by bcroe View Post
                  We had the county zoning meeting, the the 2 requests for rezoning in my area were continued for a
                  month. I picked up the revised mapping to see what is changed. I see they moved array sections to
                  give some setback from the neighbors property. This I had recommended before.

                  Each of these proposals is a pair of 2MW projects. Anyone know what sort of inverters could be
                  used? I have seen mentioned 65KW 3 phase inverters. What input DC voltage and output AC
                  voltage likely will be used?

                  The drawings still show connection to a 12KV single phase line. The minimum possible
                  I think is 33KV 3 phase, which the PoCo mentioned in preliminary communications. If
                  inverters don't output 33KV, there will need to be transformers. The 3 phase line does
                  not exist at the array nearest me, so construction would be needed to erect one. Bruce Roe
                  Solectria or Yaskawa inverters are pretty common for large pv arrays although it really depends on what the Engineer feels is best because they have to match the inveter specs with the local POCO feeder specs.

                  If there is a Y - Y transformer in the circuit on the POCO side the Engineer will need some type of grounding transformer to reduce the ground fault current that the POCO relays are monitoring.
                  Last edited by SunEagle; 06-12-2018, 09:39 PM. Reason: changed inverter mfg name

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by bcroe View Post
                    Each of these proposals is a pair of 2MW projects. Anyone know what sort of inverters could be
                    used? I have seen mentioned 65KW 3 phase inverters. What input DC voltage and output AC
                    voltage likely will be used?
                    1000V DC input is a common voltage limit; many panels now come with a 1000VDC rating. 480V 3 phase is a common output voltage. I saw about a half dozen inverters like that, from 20 to 80kW, at SPI this year.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by jflorey2 View Post
                      1000V DC input is a common voltage limit; many panels now come with a 1000VDC rating. 480V 3 phase is a common output voltage. I saw about a half dozen inverters like that, from 20 to 80kW, at SPI this year.
                      Thanks for the numbers. That is what I expected, but wanted to verify before the next review. Bruce

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Past Thurs was a county zoning meeting on the pair of proposed 4MW PV generating sites near me.
                        This was continued a month ago, and some issues with the drawings were fixed. These use E-W
                        scanning panels, which can also dump snow. Not as effective here at 42 degrees Lat, with the axis
                        parallel to the ground. I found out that the PV co will own the inverter to MVAC transformers, and
                        also own an underground 33KV 3 phase feed to the PoCo pole. That makes sense, overhead lines
                        run by the PoCo could shadow the array.

                        The first brought out the whole neighborhood, with much opposition and some tears. The resulting
                        recommendation was that it be denied, sent to the whole county board. The second only had me and
                        one other neighbor present, we said very little, it was recommended it be approved. Given the details of
                        the situation, this is probably appropriate. This one is so close I can get there without crossing a street,
                        but over the ridge out of site to me. It will require a brand new 3 phase transmission line to a close by
                        sub station, so I don't think my line will be affected. Biggest issue could be Ham radio low band noise.

                        The County Board will probably follow these recommendations.

                        On another front, my (winter) energy reserve hit 6000 KWH for April-May-June, about 4% higher than
                        the previous record despite new record rainfall in June. Bruce Roe
                        Last edited by bcroe; 07-02-2018, 07:24 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by bcroe View Post
                          Past Thurs was a county zoning meeting on the pair of proposed 4MW PV generating sites near me.
                          This was continued a month ago, and some issues with the drawings were fixed. These use E-W
                          scanning panels, which can also dump snow. Not as effective here at 42 degrees Lat, with the axis
                          parallel to the ground. I found out that the PV co will own the inverter to MVAC transformers, and
                          also own an underground 33KV 3 phase feed to the PoCo pole. That makes sense, overhead lines
                          run by the PoCo could shadow the array.

                          The first brought out the whole neighborhood, with much opposition and some tears. The resulting
                          recommendation was that it be denied, sent to the whole county board. The second only had me and
                          one other neighbor present, we said very little, it was recommended it be approved. Given the details of
                          the situation, this is probably appropriate. This one is so close I can get there without crossing a street,
                          but over the ridge out of site to me. It will require a brand new 3 phase transmission line to a close by
                          sub station, so I don't think my line will be affected. Biggest issue could be Ham radio low band noise.

                          The County Board will probably follow these recommendations.

                          On another front, my (winter) energy reserve hit 6000 KWH for April-May-June, about 4% higher than
                          the previous record despite new record rainfall in June. Bruce Roe
                          Thanks for the update Bruce. I guess those pv arrays will be in the fields to your East. Keep us up on the status.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by SunEagle View Post

                            Thanks for the update Bruce. I guess those pv arrays will be in the fields to your East. Keep us up on the status.
                            Looks like its about 4000' to the SE from me, across some big fields. N of Kishwaukee. Bruce

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