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  • Am I on the right track?

    Hello All,

    I'm sorry to ask a question that has probably been asked a million times but I don't have the ability to browse / search freely. I live in St Thomas, USVI and the hurricanes have left us w/o power or internet. I can use my phone but it's spotty. I have had the opportunity to make it to Atlanta to get supplies for work so I took advantage of it and bought my own while there.
    I have purchased:
    6 - 6v210ah batteries
    3 - 325watt monocrystalline panels
    2000 watt inverter 24v
    Mppt 30a charge controller
    2000 watt 12v inverter (by mistake, but it may work out.)
    Small Mppt 20a controller

    My plan:
    1 - 24v system using four 6v210ah batteries wired series parallel using two 325w panels. That would give me a 24v system with 420 amp hours, correct? How should I wire the panels into the charge controller?

    My plan for the other two 6v210ah batteries is to wire series and have a small solar 12v system using the third 325watt panel. So I would have a 12v210ah system, correct?

    Is there a better way to take advantage of the equipment that I have? It absolutely sucks to be without power and my guess is that we will be without for 4 - 6 months. My wife and I are not greedy, we have one good led ryobi work light that will light the whole house, we need to charge our phone batteries and dewalt/ridgid drill batteries for other led flashlights, the biggest draw will be a small 12vdc pump to draw water from the cistern for a supa cold shower. The last thing, maybe once a week to run the clothes washer and dryer which is propane.

    I'm open to any suggestions. I'll attach a photo of the tag from the bottom of the panel and can provide links to the other gear purchased for this project.

    Thank You all for your time! 1506308313526698189483.jpg

  • #2
    Your 24V battery would be wired in series, not "series parallel" but you have the essence of it with the voltage and amp-hours for both.

    You should wire the two panels to the charge controller in series, UNLESS your charge controller has a lower than or relatively close to Max Voltage of 46Voc x 2 = 92V (unlikely) OR you are expecting shade to affect one of the two panels but not the other - in which case you will want to wire them in parallel (which will likely require two MC-4 combiners).

    You won't need to fuse any of your panels, but you will want fusing between the battery and the controller and between the battery and the inverter. Let us know if fuse values (or wire sizing) is needed.

    I think you have a good plan to utilize the components you were able to procure.

    Sounds like you have it well under control and I wish you the best.

    Edit: If it becomes necessary to wire those two panels in parallel, and you don't have a way to get the proper combiners, you could just twist the positive wire to the positive wire and apply that to the positive terminal of the charge controller, same for the negative wires.
    Last edited by AzRoute66; 09-24-2017, 11:37 PM.

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    • #3
      Thank you for such a quick reply, the wiring for the batteries is 2/0 welding lead with eyes. I just went Willy nilly on fuses, it was late and I was in a hurry, I got 2 40a, 4 200a, and 4 100a. I also ordered a PWM CC before reading that it's far inferior to Mppt.

      Just so I'm clear, the 24v side, all four 6v batteries should be wired + to - and then connected to the charge controller and the inverter using the - from one end of the bank and the + from the other end.?

      Wire size from the battery bank to the inverter I was going to use the same 2/0 but what should I use from the CC to the battery bank?

      Thanks Again for all of your help!
      Below is the specs from the charge controller it's the tracer3210a, should I have got a better CC, the wife is already about to croak at the amount I have spent on this... I sure as hell hope it works!

      A9GQppuJ-810254858.jpg
      Last edited by RiP-HS-; 09-25-2017, 12:03 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        4x6V 210 Ah = 24V 210 Ah
        2x6V 210 Ah = 12V 210Ah
        all in series.

        If you want to increase Ah too you need to connect them in parallel as well, like 4x (6V 210 Ah || 6V 210 Ah) to the total of 8 6V 210 Ah batteries in 24V bank. That would give you 24V 420 Ah.

        Comment


        • #5
          OK, that was why I initially mentioned series parallel.
          Two 6v210ah wired series to make a 12v210ah and another two the same way. Then wire the two 12v210ah banks in parallel to make a 24v420ah.

          Does that sound feasible?
          Last edited by RiP-HS-; 09-25-2017, 12:35 AM.

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          • #6
            I'm no diplomat.


            You've got a false start. When you wire batteries in series -+-+-+-+ you ADD the voltage and the amp hours stays the same, so you make a 24V 210Ah bank.
            That 24V bank will require about 31V for proper EQ once a month [ only EQ flooded batteries, not sealed ]

            As long as the open circuit voltage 46V x 2 ( 92V) is below the max input voltage of the Charge Controller, you wire the panels in series, and let the MPPT down-convert it to 30V for charging the batteries, those batteries would like to see at least 20-25A for charging, so you are borderline OK, maybe.

            Charge Controller cables. You are under 30 amps, so 10ga is "safe" but with your margins, 8 ga would be better (less loss in the resistance of the cable)

            24V 2KW Inverter Cable. Assuming you will have some surge loads to maybe 3Kw, you will pull 125A - so the 2/O is good for 145A and you are safe there. But get a fuse on the cable close to the battery, the inverter manual should say what size fuse or breaker you should use, so if something happened to the wire, you won't cause a fire.



            12V system. - not tonight, too late for me.

            Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
            || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
            || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

            solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
            gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by RiP-HS- View Post
              Thank you for such a quick reply, the wiring for the batteries is 2/0 welding lead with eyes. I just went Willy nilly on fuses, it was late and I was in a hurry, I got 2 40a, 4 200a, and 4 100a. I also ordered a PWM CC before reading that it's far inferior to Mppt.
              I shouldn't have been quite that quick, I have changed my mind on this. I think your sustaining configuration will be to have two of the panels primarily on the 12V system as it will have the most usage, then to take one or both of the panels OFF of the 12V system when you want daytime running of the inverter. Do you see where I am going with this, and is my assumption that the inverter could be infrequent 'daytime' use be correct? Or, all of that 12V stuff you charge might be charging off the inverter, and if that is the case I don't know why you want a 12 V system at all...

              Just so I'm clear, the 24v side, all four 6v batteries should be wired + to - and then connected to the charge controller and the inverter using the - from one end of the bank and the + from the other end.?
              Correct.

              Wire size from the battery bank to the inverter I was going to use the same 2/0 but what should I use from the CC to the battery bank?
              The minimum would be AWG #10, this might change with your answer above, but larger would be fine up to the capacity of the terminals on the charge controller.

              Thanks Again for all of your help! Below is the specs from the charge controller it's the tracer3210a, should I have got a better CC, the wife is already about to croak at the amount I have spent on this... I sure as hell hope it works!
              The Tracer seems a good enough choice, you can put two of your panels in series on it. I'll double check the temperature later. You can only use your PWM controller if it is 24V system capable, you cannot use it on the 12V system with those panels. If it is 24V, it is not out of the question that it can be well utilized on your 24V system if we make you something that we want to use all three of the panels to power the inverter as described above. Any info on the PWM controller? And, of course, info on the inverter can't hurt. Again, if it is a 12 V PWM it cannot be used in any way with these panels to the best of my limited, and frequently corrected, knowledge. Finally, just to double check, the PWM is the 20A charge controller you listed in post #1 (erroneously as MPPT), not a third charge controller?

              Could you share what you can or cannot get? For instance, it doesn't seem impractical for me that you could return a brand new 12V PWM controller for another MPPT or 24V PWM, but that might not be the case. How hard to get an extra panel? two more batteries? a different fuse? different wire? If we assume we only have the MPPT Tracer, to what extent will somebody be around to swap a few wires for 'inverter times'? Having only one operational charge controller is going to be a bit of a bottleneck. I get the sense that you have not yet taken delivery of all of the items from your Atlanta shopping spree?

              Especially if we get a little fast and loose with re-configuring stuff periodically, always remember to hook up all charge controllers to the batteries before hooking up panels.

              Tell your wife to fear not (but to hold off on buying that five quart deep fryer).
              Last edited by AzRoute66; 09-25-2017, 01:28 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks to max2k , for the correction/clarification. The 24V bank is also 210 Ah. It does not double. The four battery 2S2P configuation that you (RiP) outlined as 'series parallel' would be 12V 240Ah, not 24V.
                Last edited by AzRoute66; 09-25-2017, 01:34 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by RiP-HS- View Post
                  OK, that was why I initially mentioned series parallel.
                  Two 6v210ah wired series to make a 12v210ah and another two the same way. Then wire the two 12v210ah banks in parallel to make a 24v420ah.

                  Does that sound feasible?
                  NOPE, that would bake a 12V 420Ah battery bank.
                  to make a 24V battery it would be four 6V batteries all in series and it would be 210ah.

                  Parallel increases ah but doesn't change voltage
                  Series increases voltage but doesn't change ah
                  Last edited by ButchDeal; 09-25-2017, 08:54 AM.
                  OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Ok, thank you all for your replies. No matter how I slice it or wire it.... With the batteries I have there is no way to get a 24v420ah setup. I need 2 more batteries to accomplish that.?

                    With 24v210ah I guess I went way overkill with the 2000 psw inverter huh? I really thought I could get to 24v420ah.... Oh well we tried. Would I be better off just going with a 12v setup? I think I have everything to do it except maybe a little wire.

                    Thanks Again,
                    Gabe

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by RiP-HS- View Post
                      Ok, thank you all for your replies. No matter how I slice it or wire it.... With the batteries I have there is no way to get a 24v420ah setup. I need 2 more batteries to accomplish that.?
                      Yep, 2 more batt's and fat, expensive cables.


                      With 24v210ah I guess I went way overkill with the 2000 psw inverter huh? I really thought I could get to 24v420ah.... Oh well we tried. Would I be better off just going with a 12v setup? I think I have everything to do it except maybe a little wire.

                      Thanks Again,
                      Gabe
                      I'd suggest dumping the 12V gear, - but, you really need one more PV panel too, you can use 2 in series [ 2S ] or 2 in series, paralleled with 2 more [ 2S, 2P ]
                      With 24v, you can't really use that 3rd panel. Going 12V, you would have far too many batteries in parallel for the power you need.

                      Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                      || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                      || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                      solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                      gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Well, I paid 200$ for the panels and 90$ each for the batteries. I doubt that the wife is going to allow me to carry on with that. If I do the 24v setup, there is really nothing I can do with the two extra batteries is there? If I could talk her into two more batteries, the third 325w panel is of no use.. Boy did I screw up... I think I may have to keep the 12v setup too so it doesn't look like I screwed up so bad

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by RiP-HS- View Post
                          Well, I paid 200$ for the panels and 90$ each for the batteries. I doubt that the wife is going to allow me to carry on with that. If I do the 24v setup, there is really nothing I can do with the two extra batteries is there? If I could talk her into two more batteries, the third 325w panel is of no use.. Boy did I screw up... I think I may have to keep the 12v setup too so it doesn't look like I screwed up so bad
                          Don't beat yourself up. Many people come to this forum after they have spent big bucks only to find out they could have spent less or gotten better equipment.

                          If you have read any of my posts concerning my solar / battery systems you would have found out I fall into that group of those "that have spent before we learned".

                          So be easy on yourself and continue to learn about this fascinating technology on this forum.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Ugh. Sorry I was having such a hard time computing 210 x 2 in my head the other night. The 12 V system might not be just window dressing, you said you had to power a 12 V water pump, and finding a 12 V 300W-ish inverter and/or a 12 V cigarette lighter type adaptor to charge USB and other batteries should be among the easier things to scrounge and slide into the budget.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Good Evening Everyone!

                              Just a little update...

                              Thank you all again for taking the time to help me with this project.

                              Everything arrived, FINALLY! I hooked up the 24v side last night, I have the inverter hooked to the battery bank and a small digital display in the mix. There is a 100a fuse between the battery bank and inverter on the positive side and a shunt on the negative. BTW, what's the purpose of the shunt? I have not hooked up the charge controller or the panels yet as I'm a little confused on where to wire the charge controller on the battery bank. I do have a 40a fuse on the positive side out of the charge controller and one more 40a fuse for the positive side of the panels going to the charge controller. I checked the voltage of one of the panels late in the afternoon after the sun was not shining on it directly and had 40v.

                              The inverter is a Aims Power 2000w and is quite the beast, approx 50 lbs.

                              My questions are, where does the charge controller hook up? Also, I'll attach a picture of the 'connector hoyahs' for the panels. How do those plug in to run the panels in series to the charge controller AND, how do you get from those connectors to bare wire to connect them to the charge controller?

                              Thank You all!

                              I still think we'll be 6 months w/o power here so thank God we were able to get this gear purchased.

                              Have a great night!

                              *edit*
                              BTW, this is just a rough setup to make sure I get everything figured out, I'll make it all nice and neat once I see it all working properly. If you see in the picture if I jacked anything up, please let me know.

                              ​​​
                              Attached Files
                              Last edited by RiP-HS-; 10-25-2017, 07:19 PM.

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