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  • New Phoenix go'er here. Just starting the process.

    Hi all,

    Introducing myself here per the rules. Like to be on the good side of things

    I'm a computer need by trade, with some basic electrical knowledge but not extensive in PV. Also quite handy with tools, I do my own remodeling. After getting numerous solar quotes I am amazed at how someone can pay a company over $17k for three days of labor. $37k quotes on less than $20k (retail price) in materials. Some of these installers just flat out rip people! So decided to do this myself.

    Starting the process for an 11.7kw roof system with APS poco in AZ. We got lots of A/C consumption so the goal is to allow me to run our A/C units as much as we want, especially during the day, without worrying insanely about the bill.

    Roof is west-north-west, about 300 degrees, so we got some loss due to non optimal orientation, but mostly just in winter. And with APS the expensive consumption time is 3-8p, so it more than makes up for it to have west facing production an hour to two later in the day.

    By calculations, I'll be able to run both ac units non stop until 6pm, then drop to just one ac unit (to keep demand charges lower), and still be able to save $160+ a month compared to before.

    6-8 with half a/c beats the old plan of 12-7 with little to no a/c, so looking forward to getting this thing going and enjoying 75 degrees again!

    I mostly will just lurk here. I have the system planned out already and am working on the permit doc's now. 72 cell silfab 345w, Enphase iq6+, ironridge xr100, quickmount tile, and roof penetrations for ac home runs thru attric. Easy peasy.

    Look forward to exchanging thoughts, banter, and general despise for product or company x with you all.


    ​​​​​​

  • #2
    While you're lurking, you might consider some things to help your solar education before you get serious:

    1.) Download and read a free, but slightly dated version of "Solar Power Your Home for Dummies", or spring for a newer hard copy at bookstores/Amazon for ~ $20.
    2.) Get familiar with how you are charged for power and equally important, how net metering may work for you, and how you are being charged now and in the future. Both are fluid situations with Power Companies ("POCOs") doing what they can, more or less successfully, to get out from under what they see as the unfair burden to their bottom line as a consequence of net metering.
    3.) Know that load reductions (turning stuff off) and conservation (using electricity more efficiently) are far and away the most cost effective methods to reduce an electric bill.
    4.) Download and get familiar with something called "PVWatts". It's a residential PV sizing model. Read all the help/info screens a couple of times, use a 10 % system loss parameter instead of the 14 % default and do a few runs. An education in itself. Just read the book first.

    After all that, come back here and fill in knowledge gaps with informed questions. Installing PV is a bit more complicated than most DIY projects and different than all of them.

    Welcome to the neighborhood and the forum of few(er) illusions.
    Last edited by J.P.M.; 10-10-2017, 12:17 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi jpm, already pretty serious projected output is planned to the hour and compared against real consumption, to minimize peak usage and demand charges. Pvwatts helped to map hour to hour. What great tool that is!!

      House is 5 years old. Have been on time of use plan 12-7, so already am familiar with load shifting. However, load shifting is a painful crock and solar solves much of it.

      Not much else I can do energy wise to get 18% yoy return on $ on a 5 yr old house. Just a big house in Arizona and there isn't much to do but make your own power, pay $500/mo, or leave the state!


      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ImInPhxAZ View Post
        Hi jpm, already pretty serious projected output is planned to the hour and compared against real consumption, to minimize peak usage and demand charges. Pvwatts helped to map hour to hour. What great tool that is!!

        House is 5 years old. Have been on time of use plan 12-7, so already am familiar with load shifting. However, load shifting is a painful crock and solar solves much of it.

        Not much else I can do energy wise to get 18% yoy return on $ on a 5 yr old house. Just a big house in Arizona and there isn't much to do but make your own power, pay $500/mo, or leave the state!
        You have selected the PV Panels, the Micro-Inverters and the Roof Mount, what remains to be discussed?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ImInPhxAZ View Post
          Hi jpm, already pretty serious projected output is planned to the hour and compared against real consumption, to minimize peak usage and demand charges. Pvwatts helped to map hour to hour. What great tool that is!!
          Out of curiosity, what did you model for clipping loss on this configuration? I suspect it is a small number, but the question comes up from time to time.
          CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ImInPhxAZ View Post
            Hi jpm, already pretty serious projected output is planned to the hour and compared against real consumption, to minimize peak usage and demand charges. Pvwatts helped to map hour to hour. What great tool that is!!

            House is 5 years old. Have been on time of use plan 12-7, so already am familiar with load shifting. However, load shifting is a painful crock and solar solves much of it.

            Not much else I can do energy wise to get 18% yoy return on $ on a 5 yr old house. Just a big house in Arizona and there isn't much to do but make your own power, pay $500/mo, or leave the state!

            welcome!

            any shading? If no shading- why not consider string inverter instead of micros?

            Comment


            • #7
              I recommend not putting any electronics on your hot Arizona roof. Kudos for going DIY on a solar system - that is where the big savings are, but you are also going to DIY replacing those microinverters as they die one by one some day.
              BSEE, R11, NABCEP, Chevy BoltEV, >3000kW installed

              Comment


              • #8
                Debated on that for awhile, but even at the worse failure rate I've seen, the worst installs, done improperly in many ways have several dying every few years.. and to me a micro every a year isnt much different than a string every 10. It's only a half hour to an hour job to get up and replace one.

                I also liked the cutaway view of an iq6 I saw somewhere.. I think they dropped electrolytic caps in them but don't quote me. Which being an it nerd, I'm aware how crappy electrolytic caps are. Solar edge even just dropped them in hd wave because their old inverters failed so badly.

                But yeah. I've read the concerns of it but still like the ac idea enough to risk having to go up and replace them periodically.. and even the risk of the company bankrupting and having to pop in apsystems replacements or another brand replacement and losing model level..

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ImInPhxAZ View Post
                  Debated on that for awhile, but even at the worse failure rate I've seen, the worst installs, done improperly in many ways have several dying every few years.. and to me a micro every a year isnt much different than a string every 10. It's only a half hour to an hour job to get up and replace one.

                  I also liked the cutaway view of an iq6 I saw somewhere.. I think they dropped electrolytic caps in them but don't quote me. Which being an it nerd, I'm aware how crappy electrolytic caps are. Solar edge even just dropped them in hd wave because their old inverters failed so badly.

                  But yeah. I've read the concerns of it but still like the ac idea enough to risk having to go up and replace them periodically.. and even the risk of the company bankrupting and having to pop in apsystems replacements or another brand replacement and losing model level..
                  I'm in the Phoenix area as well, and while planning out my system I was dead-set on string inverters due to the rooftop heat here. I plan to do a DIY install, too, and after further research realized how stupid simple a micro setup is to install vs string. The complexity of the electrical portion of the install is just so much faster and easier, plus you'll know about single panel issues and complying with the RSS requirement is much easier as well.

                  So, when I finally get around to taking the leap, I'm with you ImInPhxAZ - micros it is.

                  BTW ImInPhxAz did you buy your equipment yet? The system you discussed in your first post is nearly exactly what I planned, but my calculated pricing was closer to $15K.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Welcome! I'm in Gilbert and lucky to be under the old grandfathered pre-2014 SRP rules for 17 more years. No TOU plans for me.

                    My 6.63 kW system is dirt simple. Two identical 13-panel strings with a single ABB inverter in my cool garage. IMO, monitoring individual panel output is highly over-rated. I would never use micros in this heat with my full sun, due south orientation.

                    I choose to have Harmon install my turnkey system because it was only a $1.68 per watt after all incentives. I felt it was better to have them do the work and be on the hook for any issues with the city, HOA or my tile roof. It turned out better than I expected. Last year, I paid an average of $6.75 per month to SRP (connection fees). My net billable energy for all 12 months was zero. My system went live in Nov 2014 and ROI is abut 4 years away from today, even with electric rates falling slightly this year.
                    Dave W. Gilbert AZ
                    6.63kW grid-tie owner

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Spektre View Post

                      I'm in the Phoenix area as well, and while planning out my system I was dead-set on string inverters due to the rooftop heat here. I plan to do a DIY install, too, and after further research realized how stupid simple a micro setup is to install vs string. The complexity of the electrical portion of the install is just so much faster and easier, plus you'll know about single panel issues and complying with the RSS requirement is much easier as well.

                      So, when I finally get around to taking the leap, I'm with you ImInPhxAZ - micros it is.

                      BTW ImInPhxAz did you buy your equipment yet? The system you discussed in your first post is nearly exactly what I planned, but my calculated pricing was closer to $15K.
                      Awesome. I haven't bought yet, I'm working on all the diagrams now and once im happy with it all I'll order and submit for permit.

                      $15k sounds good. Was that all you need? If so that sounds like maybe I should price out at your source too!.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by azdave View Post
                        Welcome! I'm in Gilbert and lucky to be under the old grandfathered pre-2014 SRP rules for 17 more years. No TOU plans for me.

                        My 6.63 kW system is dirt simple. Two identical 13-panel strings with a single ABB inverter in my cool garage. IMO, monitoring individual panel output is highly over-rated. I would never use micros in this heat with my full sun, due south orientation.

                        I choose to have Harmon install my turnkey system because it was only a $1.68 per watt after all incentives. I felt it was better to have them do the work and be on the hook for any issues with the city, HOA or my tile roof. It turned out better than I expected. Last year, I paid an average of $6.75 per month to SRP (connection fees). My net billable energy for all 12 months was zero. My system went live in Nov 2014 and ROI is abut 4 years away from today, even with electric rates falling slightly this year.
                        That's a great rate for a retail installer. That's great it only is what a 7yr roi total for you? If a retail installer could get me 7yr roi I'd sign in a heartbeat!!

                        I​​​​ feel the installers have all raised rates to compensate for lower volume lately. I literally laughed out loud at most quotes I got the last few months! No one would negotiate either, not even the slightest bit. Harmon was one of those quotes, along with solar city, and a few others I don't even remember their names , small installers.

                        Enjoy the next 17 years of easy power. And running your air conditioner during the day! Srp and APS sure make it hard to live in arizona.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ImInPhxAZ View Post

                          Awesome. I haven't bought yet, I'm working on all the diagrams now and once im happy with it all I'll order and submit for permit.

                          $15k sounds good. Was that all you need? If so that sounds like maybe I should price out at your source too!.
                          Renvu and Tandem Solar are both worth checking for inventory / pricing.
                          CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

                          Comment

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