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  • #16
    Originally posted by Laspher View Post

    The closest I have is a house nearby that has a solar array of 5 racks of I believe 10 panels per rack. They also have a very small cylindrical wind turbine on the roof of their garage. If I were looking at large scale, I would probably drop by and ask a few thousand questions.

    Thanks to Ameren UE's monitoring tools, I can tell you that I have a peak usage of 170kWh. Average is about 70. I have an all electric home with Central upstairs, and baseboard heat downstairs. That said, I am not looking to go even partially off grid at this time. It does put into perspective the needs I would have should I want to go off grid.


    edit:

    This is well past an introduction, maybe this should be moved to a project thread.
    So, stop by and ask. What's the worst thing that could reasonably be expected to happen if you did that ? I can tell you're not a salesperson. Probably some dumb looks and a slammed door. Happens all the time.

    The PV is probably a lot easier to live with than a WECS and a well known situation com pared to wind, which was the purpose of my suggestion.

    What are lengths of the time periods for the 170 and 70 kWh usage ? Per week ? Per month ?

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    • #17
      170 was a winter peak--was like 12F that day, it was also a weekend when everyone was home (girlfriend, kids--6 girls--, and myself). 70kWh is a rough daily average through the week, no one home from 7 am until 5 pm, when people are home, it is just me, girlfriend, and 1 daughter.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Laspher View Post
        170 was a winter peak--was like 12F that day, it was also a weekend when everyone was home (girlfriend, kids--6 girls--, and myself). 70kWh is a rough daily average through the week, no one home from 7 am until 5 pm, when people are home, it is just me, girlfriend, and 1 daughter.
        So those were per day rates of energy usage ? If so at 70 kWh/day, that works out to about 2X+ the average annual U.S. residential usage. With a 3 person household you are a serious candidate for an energy audit before any consideration of alternate energy, solar, WECS, or anything else. Save a bundle and lower your usage first.

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        • #19
          that is 3 people for 4 days a week, 8 people for the other 3 days. According to Ameren's metrics, my residence is more energy efficient than most similar homes in my zip code @ $146 monthly, vs the average of $234. Not having natural gas for cooking or heat also makes a major impact on my bill.

          Once I can get rid of the baseboard heat in my basement (2 bedrooms, living room, and laundry / half bath) and get forced air heating, my bill will drop a lot. Getting the furnace routed from the attic (just services upstairs) to also service the basement is #2 on my home improvement agenda, #1 is replacing the roof in the next year or 2.

          [edit] One quick correction, my average is more like 59-61kWh not 70.
          Last edited by Laspher; 03-21-2017, 09:20 PM. Reason: correction of previous post.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Laspher View Post
            that is 3 people for 4 days a week, 8 people for the other 3 days. According to Ameren's metrics, my residence is more energy efficient than most similar homes in my zip code @ $146 monthly, vs the average of $234. Not having natural gas for cooking or heat also makes a major impact on my bill.

            Once I can get rid of the baseboard heat in my basement (2 bedrooms, living room, and laundry / half bath) and get forced air heating, my bill will drop a lot. Getting the furnace routed from the attic (just services upstairs) to also service the basement is #2 on my home improvement agenda, #1 is replacing the roof in the next year or 2.

            [edit] One quick correction, my average is more like 59-61kWh not 70.
            that seems like a pretty low bill for 1,800 kWh/mo. ~ $0.081/kWh. You might have a long wait for cost effectiveness.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Laspher View Post
              I did a bit of research on them, and believe they are actually above my required needs, and after checking the average wind speeds for Missouri, there are a few times a year where the average is at or below the 8 mph needed to run a basic turbine. I will think about possibly adding/upgrading if I find solar doesn't meet my fairly limited needs.

              For now, I am back to a solar only option. I am thinking of changing from roof to pole mount, assuming it is allowed by the city. Tried contacting the zoning/code enforcement/regulatory officer today, he was on vacation, back Monday.
              Do not confuse the minimum wind speed to make the turbine spin with the minimum wind speed to make significant power.
              The output of a wind turbine, no matter what the design, will be proportional to the swept area and the cube of the wind speed.
              If the turbine produces rated power with a steady 16mph wind, then it will produce at most 1/8 of that with a steady 8mph wind.
              SunnyBoy 3000 US, 18 BP Solar 175B panels.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by inetdog View Post
                Do not confuse the minimum wind speed to make the turbine spin with the minimum wind speed to make significant power.
                The output of a wind turbine, no matter what the design, will be proportional to the swept area and the cube of the wind speed.
                If the turbine produces rated power with a steady 16mph wind, then it will produce at most 1/8 of that with a steady 8mph wind.
                I know it won't be optimal, just that the model I was looking at starts turning at 8 MPH.

                J.P.M. electric.png

                There is my report from Ameren UE covering 2015-16 vs 2016-17 years. In August my GF and her daughter moved in, thus the increase there.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Laspher View Post

                  I know it won't be optimal, just that the model I was looking at starts turning at 8 MPH.

                  J.P.M. electric.png

                  There is my report from Ameren UE covering 2015-16 vs 2016-17 years. In August my GF and her daughter moved in, thus the increase there.
                  You stated you don't have nat. gas. How do you heat ? If electric baseboard, I can understand where the winter usage goes. How cold does it get by you in the winter ? If you get forced air for heating and the heat source is still electricity, you probably won't see much of a bill reduction. Depending on how cold it gets, a heat pump might be an option, but if it's as cold as it appears from the looks of the usage, that might not produce enough in the way of savings to justify the cost. I'd check the price of propane. Sometimes to oftentimes, that may be slightly to moderately less expensive than electric resistance heat.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

                    You stated you don't have nat. gas. How do you heat ? If electric baseboard, I can understand where the winter usage goes. How cold does it get by you in the winter ? If you get forced air for heating and the heat source is still electricity, you probably won't see much of a bill reduction. Depending on how cold it gets, a heat pump might be an option, but if it's as cold as it appears from the looks of the usage, that might not produce enough in the way of savings to justify the cost. I'd check the price of propane. Sometimes to oftentimes, that may be slightly to moderately less expensive than electric resistance heat.
                    I have an all electric home. Upstairs central heat, and the basement baseboard heat. It doesn't get very cold, was worse this year than last, but usually below freezing for most of the winter (mid to upper 20's). This year we had several days with single digit highs and negative lows (all F of course). I failed to mention that I live in Central Missouri.

                    When I can finally offline the baseboard heaters, I will see a reduction of about 1.5 kWh per unit offlined (x4 units = 6kWh). Rough guess is about 72kWh per day (assuming 50% duty cycle).

                    Bit of background on the home's heating: The Central unit is about 3 years old. The baseboard heaters look to be original to the house (built 1980).

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Laspher View Post

                      I have an all electric home. Upstairs central heat, and the basement baseboard heat. It doesn't get very cold, was worse this year than last, but usually below freezing for most of the winter (mid to upper 20's). This year we had several days with single digit highs and negative lows (all F of course). I failed to mention that I live in Central Missouri.

                      When I can finally offline the baseboard heaters, I will see a reduction of about 1.5 kWh per unit offlined (x4 units = 6kWh). Rough guess is about 72kWh per day (assuming 50% duty cycle).

                      Bit of background on the home's heating: The Central unit is about 3 years old. The baseboard heaters look to be original to the house (built 1980).
                      1st question: When you say "Central unit", is the heat source for that unit electric resistance heat, or is the central unit a heat pump ?

                      Why do you think you will see a reduction ? You pay for building heat loss, not generating capacity. You save on heating bills by loss reduction, not by reducing the number of heat sources or heating capacity.

                      If the "Central unit" is electric resistance, the only ways you will see a use reduction and thus a bill reduction is to reduce the heat loss by insulation and air in/exfiltration reduction, or get away from your current heating method, that is, something other than electric resistance heat, or change the interior to exterior temp. difference to a lower value. without one or more of those methods, your bills will stay about the same as f(weather).

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                      • #26
                        Electric resistance.

                        I will save because I will have 1 power hog (the central resistance heater) running instead of 5. With the thermostat being centrally located upstairs, the basement living areas will be a little cooler, but that's what blankets are for.

                        Like during summer, you saw the drastic power consumption cuts. The enter house is easily cooled by the Central Air, but with no air being forced down stairs and heats natural tendency to rise the basement has to have the baseboard heaters.

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                        • #27
                          You may not have seen these, but:


                          This is what I had growing up, one in every room of the house. My parents, shortly before I graduated highschool replaced these with a central gas furnace, their propane usage was cut by 75%.

                          Having the upstairs forced air connected to the downstairs should give me the same kind of result. I would be able to leave the breakers off for all of the baseboard heaters, and still be comfortably warm (thermostat set to 67).

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