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  • newby with questions

    Hi guys, My name is skip, but that was already taken on the forum
    so I used my handle from the Rocket forums
    I'm a 58 yr. old man who lives in Northeast Oklahoma.
    We, the wife an myself, live on 20 acres out in the woods.
    I want to learn about a solar generator for emergencies,
    and prolonged use if necessary.
    We were without electricity for 14 days a couple of years ago during an ice storm.
    Cost me an arm and a leg and two gas powered generators,
    and I don't want that happening again.
    Had a company come give me an estimate out of Tulsa
    and they estimated a grid tie system at $40,000.
    Which was significantly more than I want to spend.
    I've looked online and watched youtube videos,
    so I know just enough to cost me with a costly mistake.
    I'm no electrician, so I'm just learning about Kwh and AH, an such
    as I researched a solar generator.
    The best I've found so far, and it's a long way from providing enough power for my needs, is an 1800W.
    has extra batteries you can purchase for $1,000.
    But at least you get a 100W solar panel with the battery.
    Batteries are 20AH agm. not enough to help, especially for the price.
    Any ideas? We use about 1850 Kwh a month, and I'd like to build a system.
    Anyway, that's my introduction, any help would be appreciated.
    xhdskip
    p.s.
    The rocket forums I mentioned earlier are motorcycle forums.
    I've got two Triumph Rockets and do all my own work,
    so even though I don't know diddly about this subject yet,
    I ain't afraid to learn ro try new stuff.
    Yall, take care,
    xhdskip

  • #2
    If this is primarily for back up purposes then a hybrid system would be the best. However these are expensive and if you think gas for the generator every 4 years is a lot then batteries when you look into what it takes to run the essentials only the gasoline will look like a bargain.
    NABCEP certified Technical Sales Professional

    [URL="http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?5334-Solar-Off-Grid-Battery-Design"]http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...Battery-Design[/URL]

    [URL]http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html[/URL] (Voltage drop Calculator among others)

    [URL="http://www.gaisma.com"]www.gaisma.com[/URL]

    Comment


    • #3
      I appreciate it Rich.
      I don't mind spending some on batteries, I've seen some which were AGM for over $700. ea.
      No biggie, since they'll last years.
      I'd like to have it for a permanent backup, which would last for years if need be.

      Comment


      • #4
        from what I can tell, from the youtube videos and such,
        for a solar generator to actually work you need a inverter,
        a charge controller so ya don't fry the batteries.
        a battery bank with sufficient AH to be of some use,
        an solar panels for the initial power to the inverter.
        Is this about right?

        Comment


        • #5
          Well, you are going to spend some money.

          You already got the price for a simple Grid Tie system that unwinds your utility meter. Be advised it WILL NOT provide any power if the gird goes down.

          You can take that Simple grid tie system and use a Hybrid (solar PV and Batteries) inverter that will seamlessly switch over to solar/batteries when the grid fails. The inverter will cost you a bit more, and you will also need a Generator to charge the batteries in case of bad weather (often a cause for grid failure) And replace the batteries (used or unused) every 7 years.

          or, my suggestion would be simply obtain a decent sized professional style generator, maintain it, and have backup power when the grid is down. Depending on what fuel resources you have, it could be gasoline, diesel, or propane.
          http://www.wricointernational.com/ge...-grid_7kw.html this site lists a few decent models. Yes, expect to pay $5,000 for a good one, but you will have power. There are generally many companies that take "EPA approved" engines and couple them to a skid and alternator for power. There's been some issue with the new Onan gear, they really shaved the price and reliability down.
          Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
          || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
          || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

          solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
          gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by xhdskip View Post
            I don't mind spending some on batteries, I've seen some which were AGM for over $700. ea.No biggie, since they'll last years.
            Sorry but you still have a lot to learn. $700 worth of batteries gets you less than 1 Kwh of power a day, not even enough to run a fridge. At best may last 3 years for a cheap battery, years if you spend a $1000 for the same size but higher quality. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Best money is a pad mounted Generator using LPG where you live. A good 12 Kw genny can run everything including your Air Conditioning. For 1/3 of what a solar system would cost, dirt cheap fuel, and run everything is a lot more valuable to you and any potential buyer down the road. Not sure whose system you are on PSO, NOEC, EOC or whoever have dirst cheap electric rates and no way can even a grid tied system ever pay for itself. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Here is what you need to know. For $10,000 I can build you a 20 Kw genny, 500 Gallon LPG tank, transfer switch, and installation. It will run everythin gin your home for weeks if needed. Longer with energy management. Or for $50,000 I can do th esame with Solar only for emergencies or Hybrid Grid Tied. It still requires a generator and $15,000 worth of batteries every 5 years whether you ever use them or not. THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE ASKING FOR. Are you ready to sign a contract. I will be happy to take you to the cleaners. It will be the lowest price you can get. My collection agent is Roy D Mercer.
            MSEE, PE

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by xhdskip View Post
              Hi guys, My name is skip, but that was already taken on the forum
              so I used my handle from the Rocket forums
              I'm a 58 yr. old man who lives in Northeast Oklahoma.
              We, the wife an myself, live on 20 acres out in the woods.
              I want to learn about a solar generator for emergencies,
              and prolonged use if necessary.
              We were without electricity for 14 days a couple of years ago during an ice storm.
              Cost me an arm and a leg and two gas powered generators,
              and I don't want that happening again.
              Had a company come give me an estimate out of Tulsa
              and they estimated a grid tie system at $40,000.
              Which was significantly more than I want to spend.
              I've looked online and watched youtube videos,
              so I know just enough to cost me with a costly mistake.
              I'm no electrician, so I'm just learning about Kwh and AH, an such
              as I researched a solar generator.
              The best I've found so far, and it's a long way from providing enough power for my needs, is an 1800W.
              has extra batteries you can purchase for $1,000.
              But at least you get a 100W solar panel with the battery.
              Batteries are 20AH agm. not enough to help, especially for the price.
              Any ideas? We use about 1850 Kwh a month, and I'd like to build a system.
              Anyway, that's my introduction, any help would be appreciated.
              xhdskip
              p.s.
              The rocket forums I mentioned earlier are motorcycle forums.
              I've got two Triumph Rockets and do all my own work,
              so even though I don't know diddly about this subject yet,
              I ain't afraid to learn ro try new stuff.
              Yall, take care,
              xhdskip
              To build a solar/battery off grid system that supplies your needs of 1850kWh per month (~62kWh/day) is probably going to cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $125k. Which is more than 3 times that $40k you would spend on getting grid power.

              I don't know what your POCO charges per kWh but it will be 1/5th to 1/10th what a battery system costs to generate that same kWh.

              I would investigate getting connected to the grid as well as having a backup generator.

              If you still want to include solar then a "grid tie" system may pay for itself over a number of years (depends on how much the POCO charges). But it is really the only way solar has a payback.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SunEagle View Post
                I don't know what your POCO charges per kWh but it will be 1/5th to 1/10th what a battery system costs to generate that same kWh.
                If he is in NE Oklahoma anywhere around the Grand Lakes of the Cherokees he i spaying one of the highest rates in the state of 8 to 9 cents per Kwh. Pretty much being ripped off, but still half to 1/4 of what it cost in other states who are being robbed blind.
                MSEE, PE

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by xhdskip View Post
                  from what I can tell, from the youtube videos and such,
                  for a solar generator to actually work you need a inverter,
                  a charge controller so ya don't fry the batteries.
                  a battery bank with sufficient AH to be of some use,
                  an solar panels for the initial power to the inverter.
                  Is this about right?
                  What everyone has told you here is true. It will be VERY expensive to have a system that maintains your existing energy usage in the event of a prolonged power outage. However, depending on your expectations you can improve your situation.

                  What do you NEED, not WANT, when the power goes out? If you want to prepare for an emergency, first decide how little you NEED. Can you heat and cook with propane or wood? If you live in the woods, perhaps that is the case. That will reduce your needs for electricity.

                  Do an energy audit and conserve first. Replace that 100w TV with a 24w TV (or buy one and store for emergencies). Get an Energy Star Refrigerator or purchase a backup DC powered low amp fridge/freezer for an emergency. If your frozen food is the biggest concern, the fridge/freezers that run from DC can easily be run from solar. Invest in energy efficient lights, etc. Then calculate the bare minimum that you will need in an emergency and go from there. Get something to measure actual output, such as a kill-o-watt meter and estimate how many hours you will run things in an emergency.

                  If you conserve and hunker down, you can likely invest just a few thousand dollars to give you a survival mode in an emergency. You will not have air conditioning or cook on your 220V electric stove, but you will not be in the dark and you will have communications with the outside world.

                  Comment

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