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  • maximusdecimus
    replied
    Thanks J.P.M. for your perspective. This is clearly a difficult choice to make and I appreciate any information about potential installers I can get.

    Leave a comment:


  • J.P.M.
    replied
    Originally posted by maximusdecimus View Post
    Thought I would chime in here to revive an old thread and talk about my experience with SolarCity. I'm a couple weeks into getting quotes for about a 5 kW system and I made sure to tell SC that I'm not interested in leases or PPAs. The first quote they gave me was at $3.6/W, not terrible, but not great either for an ABB string inverter and Hanwha 265 modules. Started looking around more and ended up getting quotes at $3.2. Much to my surprise SC matched it. I kept looking though and eventually found a local installer to go down to $2.9/W for a SolarEdge inverter and Canadian Solar 265s. We will see if SC will suck it up and match that quote too. The only thing SC has not done yet is allow me to specify components. I asked for a SolarEdge inverter and modules with power optimizers but they balked. They said they would only consider it if I had engineering drawings from a competitor specifying those components, well I'm working on that too. The only reason I'm trying to drive down the cost on SC is because they are offering $1000 cash back which effectively drives cost down to $2.7/W. Overall, the sales rep has been very responsive and I'm impressed they are matching competitors bids. Is $1000 enough of a reason to go with them over a good local installer? I'm not sure.
    An update: What follows is my opinion only, based on my experience and observation of SolarCity's job performance and end product.

    As some background, when my later engineering career involved engineering management and project management, I was occasionally involved in vendor surveillance and also contract performance as a vendor and sometimes in a system integration function. I learned (or confirmed actually) not all contractors and vendors are created or function equally well (or badly). After a while you see patterns and trends that seem to carry from one type of business to another, and avoid the losers. Or (with all possible candor), if a vendor, learn how to bury your mistakes (like surgeons get to do).

    After retirement, as the guy that reviews and recommends approval/changes to the Arch. Review Comm. for all the solar jobs in my HOA, I've reviewed and monitored over 100 or so residential solar installations over the last 8 + yrs. 13 of those were SolarCity jobs. In my opinion, based on those 13 jobs and my interactions with SolarCity, SolarCity's capabilities and job performance are, overall, close to the bottom on a list of over 20 vendors whose work I've reviewed and many of whom I've interacted with. There is only one job in my HOA that has been stopped and the work removed. It was a Solar City job.

    Their sales and support staff are, in general, and again, IMO only, based on my interactions with them, unprofessional. If I were in a position to do so, I'd not hire anyone I interfaced with at SolarCity for anything other than entry level manual labor.

    Personnel commonly and usually do not return phone calls. When they do, they commonly have no knowledge of why they were asked to call back. I rarely spoke with the same person on a job more than once. For some reason, I dealt w/ 3 SolarCity offices: LA, Seattle, and before they pulled out, Las Vegas. Go figure. Any information I did get from them, right or wrong, was never forthcoming. Most everyone on their end was (or played) dumb. Finished product often matched drawings only by, it seems, coincidence. That, however, probably didn't matter much as the drawings were, for the most part better suited as cartoons, along with such shenanigans as the same template used and never changed from job to job. Material such as panel mfg. or inverter mfg. were often missing, maybe because what the material would be was unknown until it showed up at the jobsite. An example of useless drawing info: I've got a dozen copies of the same roof attachment drawing for 12 jobs with no dimensions on them and half of them on finished jobs that have different attachments than the drawing shows. Finished job quality, while not, IMO, top drawer, was still inconsistent.

    (As an aside, note too that all this doesn't speak too well for the AHJ. Note to potential solar users: You may be a bit on your own for job surveillance. Just sayin'.)

    All completed SolarCity jobs in my HOA jobs were either leases or PPA's. Lease payments varied from $0.0196/ D.C. Watt per month to 0.0249/D.C.Watt per month, pretty much independent of system size, but (it seems to me) dependent on age and/or naivety of the mark (customer). For some reason, PPA's ran pretty consistently at $0.15/kWh. All contracts, whether leases and PPA's had 2.9 % annual escalation.

    The sad part, to me anyway (aside from the idea that these were leases/PPA's in the first place), is that other vendors who are reputable and, IMO, capable of doing fit for purpose work, charge no more, or only slightly more, and in some cases less, for a better product in terms of quality of product, quality of workmanship, customer service and professionalism. (Not a plug but my lease #'s from signed contracts for other local vendors, one of whom I seriously considered for my work - but not a lease - ranged from $0.0205/D.C. Watt per month to $0.0261/D.C. Watt per month - including BTW, a fair amount of Sunpower equipment/leases, albeit at the higher price points referenced - and often with no escalation. Everything is negotiable.)

    I wouldn't let SolarCity on my property.

    Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

    Leave a comment:


  • kgvenkatesh
    replied
    What do people think of Sunworks? Are their install quality and support good? They seem to be growing and have been aggressive on pricing, of late, I think.

    Leave a comment:


  • solarix
    replied
    SC install quality is not good either. You could have conduit running all over your roof, etc. They burnout their people and then hire newbies that don't know much.

    Leave a comment:


  • captaindomon
    commented on 's reply
    Read SolarReviews on them. If they can match the price, but they'll give you the runaround for a year before they install, then break something and you will never be able to get a hold of them to fix it, it isn't worth it. They seem to be a classic example of a responsive, aggressive sales force working on commission, with no operations or project management structure to actually deliver. Just my two cents from reading reviews (I haven't interacted with them myself).

  • maximusdecimus
    replied
    Thought I would chime in here to revive an old thread and talk about my experience with SolarCity. I'm a couple weeks into getting quotes for about a 5 kW system and I made sure to tell SC that I'm not interested in leases or PPAs. The first quote they gave me was at $3.6/W, not terrible, but not great either for an ABB string inverter and Hanwha 265 modules. Started looking around more and ended up getting quotes at $3.2. Much to my surprise SC matched it. I kept looking though and eventually found a local installer to go down to $2.9/W for a SolarEdge inverter and Canadian Solar 265s. We will see if SC will suck it up and match that quote too. The only thing SC has not done yet is allow me to specify components. I asked for a SolarEdge inverter and modules with power optimizers but they balked. They said they would only consider it if I had engineering drawings from a competitor specifying those components, well I'm working on that too. The only reason I'm trying to drive down the cost on SC is because they are offering $1000 cash back which effectively drives cost down to $2.7/W. Overall, the sales rep has been very responsive and I'm impressed they are matching competitors bids. Is $1000 enough of a reason to go with them over a good local installer? I'm not sure.

    Leave a comment:


  • KRenn
    replied
    Originally posted by gwelty View Post
    Can anyone explain why the animosity about SolarCity and some of the other major installers like Vivint?
    . 30 year workmanship and material warranty, for instance, gives me peace of mind.
    .

    Might be one of the worst reasons I've heard for going with a solar company. I can offer you a 100 year warranty if I'm not planning to be in business longer than 10. A company with less than a 10 year history offering a 30 year warranty...makes sense.

    If the inverter breakdown is such an issue, you can get an extended warranty for a fairly reasonable cost, locking in to a more expensive solar contract, with a company that seems to use whatever panels they found on a bargain basement sale doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.


    Personally I'd be more concerned with getting quality components across the board then hoping and wishing that a solar leasing outfit makes it over the long haul.

    Leave a comment:


  • J.P.M.
    replied
    Originally posted by igerstein View Post
    But elon musk and tesla and spacex and google and and and
    Yea ! That's some B.S., ain't it ? P.T. Barnum reincarnated.

    Leave a comment:


  • igerstein
    replied
    But elon musk and tesla and spacex and google and and and

    Leave a comment:


  • NorCalX
    replied
    Originally posted by inetdog View Post
    Only time will tell, but I would rather say that their marketing model is looong term investment, while their business model may well be grab what you can and run.
    The evidence is not in yet on that IMHO.
    I like the way you phrase it better

    Their business model is to sell the idea of a long term investment

    What they are really doing is frontloading all of those costs (i.e., grabbing what they can now and running with it)

    That was my impression when the sales person left me

    Leave a comment:


  • inetdog
    replied
    Originally posted by NorCalX View Post

    Their business model appears to be looong term investment.

    Not my #1 choice currently
    Only time will tell, but I would rather say that their marketing model is looong term investment, while their business model may well be grab what you can and run.
    The evidence is not in yet on that IMHO.

    Leave a comment:


  • NorCalX
    replied
    I just had one of their reps over last night.

    His first rough estimate was to squeeze 40+ panels on my roof (highest I have seen from others is 27)

    I was also shocked at the premium pricing 41k gross for an 8.06kw system (5.1 per watt/installed)

    Focus of his sale was the ongoing relationship...they don't want to sell and move on. They stay part of your solar experience for 30 years

    Their business model appears to be looong term investment.

    Not my #1 choice currently

    Leave a comment:


  • captaindomon
    replied
    I was talking to one of these large companies originally. The guy spent an hour explaining to me that the sun makes electricity, and going through their loan structure. Turns out, they use a local installer subcontractor. I called up the subcontractor, and they were awesome! Spent an hour exploring where the panels would go, how they would run the conduit, what kind of inverter I wanted, etc. etc. At the end, I asked how they run the financing, and the local installer just said they could have me talk to one of their partners but they didn't do financing. Made me feel really good that their focus was on making money selling and installing solar panels, not making money as a finance scam.

    Go with a highly rated local installer, and spend your time talking to the people that are going to be on your roof and in your attic, not some finance / sales guy.

    Leave a comment:


  • J.P.M.
    replied
    Over the last 7+ yrs., I've reviewed all the solar installs for my HOA for CC & R conformance - about 80+ jobs so far. That has allowed me to have access to a lot of information including quotes, prices, a fair amount of vendor interface and homeowner ignorance.

    All that aside, SolarCity has about 10 of those jobs. Bottom line, after what I've seen of their knowledgeability, revolving door for personnel, business ethics, often subcontracted labor and installation, and just plain overall bad taste in my mouth, while I do not recommend installers, I wouldn't let Solar City on my property, even if they actually were in business to sell solar equipment.

    And, FWIW, if I was in the job market, I'd not consider working for them under any conditions I can think of. I can't remember a time when I was that destitute.

    Leave a comment:


  • azdave
    replied
    In my case, I wanted to purchase my system outright and told Solar City exactly that when I asked for a quote. The salesman arrived and as soon as he realized I could not be talked into a lease he couldn't get to the door fast enough. Their quote for a purchased system came in almost three times what I paid through a locally owned solar company. The salesman mentioned Elon Musk about every other sentence so I guess I was supposed to be impressed?

    Leave a comment:

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