New Start Solar with Gene Backup

[Aquamechanic]

Apologies to those looking for a quick read and the essay below.

I have a property that is adjacent to the power grid (200ft) but at this time, I am not going to get on it. Where I am the energy charges are crazy, including charges for delivery whether or not you use power. Many other issues also but suffice to say for what I need, I may as well stay off for now.

We camp in a travel trailer weekends all summer for 3 days and head back to the city for 4.

From the 30 amp electrical hookup for the trailer I am able to run with the Honda 3000W inverter:
Trailer A/C (occasionally nice but not required),
Microwave,
Kettle,
Toaster,
Hairdryer,
Lighting,
Built in Micro-fridge and
Supply the trailer inverter/charger for the 12 volt battery
(usually never more than 1 of the above high wattage items at the same time) .
There is also a separate mini fridge in an outbuilding.

1 problem with all the above applications is I have to go out and turn on the gene and then remember to turn it off again once done. This often doesn't happen and it runs for nearly no reason for hours every weekend.

Another problem is every week we need to bring both mini fridge contents back to the city (2 coolers) since there is no power available when we aren't there.
In the interest of solving the next big hurtle to off grid camping, I'd like to have power available all the time to the out building mini fridge (3-4 cubic foot) while gene isn't running or we aren't there so I don't need to keep turning it on to hopefully keep thawed chicken or beer from getting warm. Yuck!

I already have:
4 x 12v 120AH golf Cart Batteries used 1 year
3 x 100w Costco solar panel set with 30 AMP controller - New ( I get about 6-7 hrs direct sunlight avail. during camp season from Sunrise until 2pm)
3000w Honda Gene/ Inverter

Ideally I would like to charge the 4 golf cart batteries with the gene whenever low but otherwise not use gene except for the lake water pump which demands near gene capacity at peek startup. For this I will continue to turn gene on as needed.

I'd like to use new battery bank each day to invert to:
make a few coffees in the morning,
run the 900w microwave for couple 5 minute spurts,
keep a separate mini fridge on all the time (beer!),
charge phones/ computer/ run low wattage lighting / small exhaust fan from shower

Looking to find out opinion on what route to take with inverter/ charger and how many watts my system should support. Can I run 24 volt DC or do I need to go 48 volt? Also what small parts I need to consider beyond Panels/ Controller/ Inverter-Charger

I browsed the STICKY threads in this forum and have hit info overload. I want to keep it inexpensive at this time but will eventually build a cottage and decide at that time whether to expand or get on the grid.

Guidance appreciated,

[J.P.M.]

Apologies to those looking for a quick read and the essay below.

Guidance appreciated,

If you think grid power is expensive, wait until you take the time to find out what off grid power will cost you in terms of toil and treasure. Hint: keep a change of underwear handy.

[bcroe]

RVers have solved these type problems using propane, some LED lights, and sometimes a generator. If
the grid is 200', it is your best bet for continuous power. Bruce Roe

[Mike90250]

A fridge is going to require about 1.5 kwh daily, and to recharge batteries and their losses, you need to harvest about 2kwh daily. I suspect you actually get 4 or 5 hours of usable sunlight in summer.

I'd suggest a 24v system, with about a 1kw pure sine inverter, because it takes that much inverter to start the fridge compressor. It may run at 80w, but needs a lot more to start the motor - ever notice in your house, the lights flicker a bit when the fridge starts ?

You will need about 400- 500w of PV, a 25A charge controller, breakers, and mounting gear, and hope vandals don't steal it when you are away.

[SunEagle]

RVers have solved these type problems using propane, some LED lights, and sometimes a generator. If
the grid is 200', it is your best bet for continuous power. Bruce Roe

Heck my new home had the grid about 180 feet away. I had my POCO install a 200Amp U/G run to the house for about $800. Worth every penny.

[citabria]

Have you even tried to get an estimate from a contractor, or the power company for the complete cost of a grid power connection? If so how much was it? Start with that, then look at alternatives. I am full time off-grid at the homestead and would prefer a grid connection .

[Aquamechanic]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.
Ironic that almost every reply I receive from a solar forum suggests I pass and just hook up to the grid and not bother with the solar/ gene power concept.

I have not actually checked on the cost to hook up but can say that I am on semi-exposed bedrock so there won't be any trenching for cable. It is up a 150 foot slope that is near fully treed with mature hardwoods and pines so it isn't like it is at the edge of my lawn. But you are right. I may find it is cheaper than I had expected and should just get'r done.

Another consideration is that I am at the very end of a cottage road transmission line. Last pole. So if anything happens (remembering those pines and hardwoods) along the couple miles from the main source grid, our area is the last to see work crews to get the juice flowing again. It isn't unusual for my grid adapted neighbours to be 2-3 days without juice after a bad storm.

But just in case the current plan is more financially palatable, should I go 'all eggs in one basket' with an inverter/ charger combo or would a separate 24v inverter and charger be a better way to go? I was looking at Aims because it came up on a search but I am completely open to reliable brand suggestions.

[jflorey2]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.
Ironic that almost every reply I receive from a solar forum suggests I pass and just hook up to the grid and not bother with the solar/ gene power concept.

They're just trying to save you money. Solar grid tie is relatively cheap - solar off-grid is very expensive. (Batteries cost $$$.)

Another consideration is that I am at the very end of a cottage road transmission line. Last pole. So if anything happens (remembering those pines and hardwoods) along the couple miles from the main source grid, our area is the last to see work crews to get the juice flowing again. It isn't unusual for my grid adapted neighbours to be 2-3 days without juice after a bad storm.

That's a great argument for a generator and maybe a UPS for your critical loads (computer etc.) But that's relatively cheap compared to a full off grid system.

But just in case the current plan is more financially palatable, should I go 'all eggs in one basket' with an inverter/ charger combo or would a separate 24v inverter and charger be a better way to go? I was looking at Aims because it came up on a search but I am completely open to reliable brand suggestions.

In that case I'd consider a 48 volt Outback inverter/charger. They can do nearly everything, and are good up to 3600 watts or so.

[Aquamechanic]

Appreciated

[J.P.M.]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.
Ironic that almost every reply I receive from a solar forum suggests I pass and just hook up to the grid and not bother with the solar/ gene power concept.

I have not actually checked on the cost to hook up but can say that I am on semi-exposed bedrock so there won't be any trenching for cable. It is up a 150 foot slope that is near fully treed with mature hardwoods and pines so it isn't like it is at the edge of my lawn. But you are right. I may find it is cheaper than I had expected and should just get'r done.

Another consideration is that I am at the very end of a cottage road transmission line. Last pole. So if anything happens (remembering those pines and hardwoods) along the couple miles from the main source grid, our area is the last to see work crews to get the juice flowing again. It isn't unusual for my grid adapted neighbours to be 2-3 days without juice after a bad storm.

But just in case the current plan is more financially palatable, should I go 'all eggs in one basket' with an inverter/ charger combo or would a separate 24v inverter and charger be a better way to go? I was looking at Aims because it came up on a search but I am completely open to reliable brand suggestions.

Nothing ironic from the forum of straight talk and fewer illusions. Alternate energy is good stuff and can do a lot, but it can't do everything the con men and media hype would lead the solar ignorant to believe. Fact of life : Sometimes it's impractical or economically disadvantageous to the point of absurdity to meet a goal using solar energy. You appear to have one such situation.

[Aquamechanic]

Nothing ironic from the forum of straight talk and fewer illusions. Alternate energy is good stuff and can do a lot, but it can't do everything the con men and media hype would lead the solar ignorant to believe. Fact of life : Sometimes it's impractical or economically disadvantageous to the point of absurdity to meet a goal using solar energy. You appear to have one such situation.

Sounds like the energy policy of the province I live in.

However, personally in the upcoming 3 year short term, I am looking to keep a mini fridge going for 4 days without gene backup and 3 days with gene backup while assisting the 4 day hiatus with 300 watts of panels and 4 x 120AH g.c. batteries. Is it that much of a stretch to think this may be less than absurd for a 6 month stint each year?

If yes I guess I may have inflated expectations.

[littleharbor]

Just $0.02 worth here. While it is an option you should be considering I need to mention I believe the correct spelling of the word is Genny, short for Generator. Not being sarcastic, just trying to prevent confusion of newbies.

[Mike90250]

..... 3 days with gene backup while assisting the.....

gene backup - them's kids, that gene backup stuff. You change their diapers first, then 70 years later, they change yours