Off grid inverter/charger shopping

[SooFilthy]

I am 48v inverter shopping and need your help.

Curent Setup

8 - 255w panels wired 4 in series 2 parallel, fixed directly S, angle of panels are adjusted every month.
batteries- interstate gc2 225ah 6v (16 total)
Midnite Classic 200
replacing - 12v outback inverter/charger

I would like to build a setup that is fairly expandable. I have two year plan to add 1000-2000w of solar,a 500-1000w wind turbine and 8 more batteries.

I curenly have my eye on the Schneider Electric SW4048 inverter/charger. I was curious if anyone could clarify the

[Matrix]

I think the SW is going to be the least expensive way to go - Along with the SCP (system control panel which is absolutely necessary IMHO) - especially if you shop around. You should be able to get the combo for around $1,600 and the SW is expandable. The charger is robust, but finicky, yet I have come up with some workarounds if you do get it.

And if you go with the SW, MidNite Solar's E-Panel for the SW is the least expensive of their E-Panel Line of products.

[SooFilthy]

Thanks. Glad to hear other people are running them. Hard to beat the price and I have had my eye on the scp. I was wondering what the intelligent function where they refer to assisting small generators with heavy loads is. I Want to get a Honda 2800 inverter/generator. I have heard some inverters will recognize a small generator is hooked up and run them at 80% load.

[Matrix]

Not sure about the gen connect. But the SCP or the Combox (more expensive) is the only way you are going to program anything.

But keep in mind. It is a 240v split, which means if you try to run it at 120 single phase L1 only, it will only be good for about 1/2 to 3/4 of the wattage. Its not big deal, you just have to plan for that by using a 240v split main load panel. L1 and L2

[SooFilthy]

What size generator are you using? I was wondering If I can hook up a smaller generator and not kill it. I run a generator 4-8 hrs a week in the winter dec-feb and Cant justify spending $5000 on a generator. This is my full time setup so I want to try to make it a reliable system.

[Mike90250]

First, what are your loads when you are running generator ? Any 240V loads ? Any heavy 120V loads that will unbalance the inverter or generator ? Is your generator 240V or 120?

[SooFilthy]

My 5700w generator is cureltny running 1 leg of a 240 so 120. I have no real heavy loads I put on my bank. I run a 700w microwave from time to time( max of 5 min a day, 860w toaster ( max 5 min a day), my fridge and freezer take about 750w a day, tv dvd combo take 90w an hr (0-3 hrs a day). Once a week I run a load of laundry and vacuume. The 5700w generator I have is a gas hog.

[SooFilthy]

Oh I run a 450w 5000 btu window ac unit from time to time to cool the house in the summer when it sun is shining. The batteries are usually at absorb by the time I turn it on.

[Matrix]

I would probably connect it as 240v, balance your loads, and run the genny that you have. It is not ideal but I think it could work if you do not have super heavy loads on the gen. It may slow your charging if you use the SW charger.

[SooFilthy]

So I can generator charge 240 with the Schneider electric inverter? The 12v outback I am borrowing from my neighbor will only charge 240 if you have two of them. I guess I just thought every inverter I was like that. My only electrical knowledge is physics from college and I wish now that I went to more of the classes.

[ButchDeal]

So I can generator charge 240 with the Schneider electric inverter? The 12v outback I am borrowing from my neighbor will only charge 240 if you have two of them. I guess I just thought every inverter I was like that. My only electrical knowledge is physics from college and I wish now that I went to more of the classes.

You can charge from 240v on the outback with an autotransformer to convert from 240 to 120v, or as you stated stack two of them.

[SooFilthy]

You can charge from 240v on the outback with an autotransformer to convert from 240 to 120v, or as you stated stack two of them.

I wish I would have know that eight months ago lol. Will I need to stack or get an auto transformer to charge 240v on the schnider inverter?

[Matrix]

I wish I would have know that eight months ago lol. Will I need to stack or get an auto transformer to charge 240v on the schnider inverter?

No. the SW has Two 120v inputs and Two 120v outputs. You bring an L1 / L2 in and it has an L1 / L2 out. Stacking is not required for 240v output. But the SW can be stacked for more power output.

The SW does not necessarily need 240v input to charge or operate, but it can use both L1 and L2 in and output to either L1 or L2 or both. BUT, the SW does get derated as an inverter on 120v output.

The continuous output of the SW 4048 inverter on Single Phase L1 output is NOT the rated 3800 W but rather 2700 W on 120v.

A split-phase input through L1 and L2 yields a split-phase output of L1and L2.

Single-phase input through L1 yields a split-phase output of L1 and L2.

A single-phase input through L2 does not produce any output. Only the input in Line 1 is capable of qualifying the AC coming from the power source.

Also from the manual

Power Share. The Conext SW charger uses both split-phase lines AC INPUT L1 and L2 to charge the batteries at full capacity. However, if only AC INPUT L1 is used, charge capacity is reduced to 50%. Consequently, the Conext SW charger shares incoming power with AC loads on both split-phase lines with a current limit of 30 amps for charging and pass-through AC. However, when AC is qualified only on one line at AC INPUT L1, the current draw from that input is limited to 15 amps (SW 4024 120/240) and 13 amps (SW 2524 120/240) for charging and AC pass-through. The AC loads have priority, which means that the charger will reduce its output with large AC loads and increase the output again
when the AC load decreases. The regulatory maximum for continuous AC loads is 80% of the breaker rating that the loads are connected to.

For example, if the AC input of the Conext SW is from an AC panel with a 30-amp breaker, the Power Share setting on the SCP should be selected as 30-amp. Based on this, the charger will control the charge current so that the total current draw is equal to or less than 24 amps in this case. Should the load current be more than about 24 amps, the charger output will reduce to zero (0) amp, but the Conext SW will continue to supply the loads. The Conext SW will continue to pass-through power to the loads, even if the load current exceeds the Power Share setting. In this case, it will be up to the user to remove/disconnect loads if tripping the AC input breaker supplying the Conext SW is to be avoided.

[Matrix]

Please keep in mind, the SW series is a Hybrid Inverter. It is designed to have the ability to interact with your grid power, but NOT sell back to the grid or allow any battery/solar/etc power to go back into the grid. The SW is designed to allow the user to bring AC power in from the grid, or generator (or both using a transfer switch).

In it's AC support mode the inverter and battery/solar/etc combo is supposed to support grid power. Any load that is connected to the output panel of the SW will pull from the battery/solar/etc until a user set parameter is met (battery low voltage, SOC, load shaving settings), THEN the inverter starts sharing with grid power until the values fall below user set parameters and the inverter goes to supplying the load by grid (or genny if so connected and you have auto start) power exclusively. When Charging from the inverter using the built in charger, all loads are supplied by the grid/genny.

This works well in theory, and works well in practice IF and ONLY IF the loads on L1 and L2 are near perfectly balanced. If you are drawing 5 amps on L1 and 9 amps on L2, the SW in AC support mode will draw mostly from the grid and NOT the battery / solar / etc. Also if the loads fall below 2 amps total L1 / L2 (about 300-400 Watts or less) the SW will only supply power via the grid.

That said, several of us who use the SW do not use AC support mode, we simply turn off the input breaker and use the SW as an Off-Grid inverter only turning on the breaker for grid input when charging or battery SOC demand grid. The SW works perfectly as an Off-Grid inverter. Schneider has told me you could use an auto transformer on the output side to perfectly balance the L1/L2 loads going out of the SW and this would cause AC Support mode to work very well, but an auto transformer that would work is in the $500 plus range, and it's just cheaper to turn off AC input until needed.

As a charger there are some limits and quarks, but I have several workarounds that make it very effective. It is my opinion that if you use the stock settings for charging simply based on battery size and chemistry, you will NOT get a fully charged battery with the SW according to the SG readings. You will most likely have to use custom settings and using your hydrometer for SG to determine what is the best custom charge settings.

[Mike90250]

Here is a side by side comparison of Off Grid systems from Tesla, Outback, Magnum (very much like Schneider), Pika, Darfon, Solar Edge, & Sol-Ark.

It's really sleazy to NOT have included Schneider, much like Midnight Solar does not compare against Morningstar.