Smart grid

[morgandc]

Does anyone know of a technology that would use SMART GRID technology to tell compliant items to go into low power consumption mode when the sun isn't out or the batteries are low? I did just find a refridge that will let me set the time of day for defrost mode, that will help.

-Dwight

[DanS26]

I asked this same question a few years ago. I'm on a net billing system (as opposed to net metering) which incents me to use my excess PV production internally rather than selling it to the POCO at a lower wholesale rate.

I want to charge my EV, heat sinks or pumps, etc internally only when the sun is shining and if the sun isn't shining then to stop consumption. My idea was to build an insolation monitoring device, something like a security light in reverse. The device had to have a variable insolation sensing capability so that I could control how much sunlight was needed to energize a relay which in turn would control a limit switch at the EV or heat sink/pump.

I could not find anything off the shelf that would work for the power needed to be switched. A few EE's did say it was possible but would be problematic especially on cloudy days as the device would be constantly switching as clouds rolled over.

So I just went low tech and installed timers that operate only from 10am to 4pm. Not perfect but it works and I do use much more of my own production internally with the timers.

[Mike90250]

Midnight Classic controller has a couple of relay outputs that can be set to trigger at specific voltages, but like Dan, I have a simple timer which does the job 98% of the time. It's wired to my water pump for mid-day runtime
20180106_124032.png

[morgandc]

The smart grid option would allow reduced load, but not have to turn an appliance like a fridge off. Since most of us don't have air conditioning, I can't think of any other appliances that would benefit.

[peakbagger]

I expect the old X-10 tech could be used to hack a system. It used a power line carrier signal to send signals over the house wiring to local modules. The appliance modules did come in 120 and 240 volts AC. Just wire in the loads you want to switch and then use the universal interface module to send a input to switch the loads. My guess for the triggering circuit is to come up with current sensor on the utility feeder. If the system is importing you shut down opportunity loads if its exporting you turn them on. I seem to remember a thread on sensing direction of current flow a few years and that would be the ticket for the input.

[morgandc]

It looks like this particular appliance supports something closer to Zigbee over my home wifi network, but I haven't discovered the protocol details yet.

SGIP Open Standards (Smart Energy Profile 2.0 - URL in quote removed it was confusing people parked page) - Energy Consumption Reporting - Demand Response
Energy Consumption Reporting
Demand Response

[ButchDeal]

It looks like this particular appliance supports something closer to Zigbee over my home wifi network, but I haven't discovered the protocol details yet.

Zigbee and Zwave are not the same as WiFi. You would need a zigbee (or Zwave) hub and make sure that the hub supports the appliance.

I personally use Wink hub and you can set up appliances with IfTTT to turn on or off. SolarEdge has done some of this in EU but not in the US yet.

Ex-SunEd (FLeXPower) people (and Wink) have gone and created a (horribly designed and configured) system to do this which I can in no way recommend. I have one (as part of testing) and it doesn't do much.

https://www.flexpowerplay.com/en-us/home

This could have been a nice produce but it is so poorly integrated and seems like the SunEd people have not learned a think.
The entire thing could be done with very little hardware and entirely by SolarEdge equipment but as it stands it blocks the SolarEdge monitoring and gives no easy robots to turn on or off things. The SolarEdge solution would work perfectly as they already have grid zero built in with consumption monitoring and (in EU) can turn on additional loads or adjust thermostats if there is extra power available.

One trivial short fall in the FlexPower solution is that the robots are rather difficult to set up and too simplistic. You could with trouble set up a robot to adjust the thermostat if extra power is available but it is not smart enough to figure out if you are cooling or heating so which way to you adjust the set point? (up or down to consume more).

[morgandc]

It appears that this Smart Energy Profile ver 2.0 although being based on the original Zigbee protocols, does allow wifi instead of having a Zigbee hub. Still researching.

https://www.ei.se/Documents/Projekt/Funktionskrav%20elm%C3%A4tare/2017/SEP%202pkt0.pdf

[ButchDeal]

It appears that this Smart Energy Profile ver 2.0 although being based on the original Zigbee protocols, does allow wifi instead of having a Zigbee hub. Still researching.

[URL="https://www.ei.se/Documents/Projekt/Funktionskrav%20elm%C3%A4tare/2017/SEP%202pkt0.pdf"]https://www.ei.se/Documents/Projekt/Funktionskrav%20elm

Your urls are hosed up. In any case zigbee is not compatible with WiFi in any way. A device might do both zigbee and WiFi but you can not do zigbee over WiFi they are inherently different and WiFi works with Ethernet protocol and tcpip. Zigbee is different frequency, protocol and everything.

[morgandc]

Fixed the link.

I didn't intend to convey that it was Zigbee compatible, it is "closer to Zigbee" (than x10) and "based on the original Zigbee protocols" (per the article linked above).

In this particular case, the fridge is running on wifi with the newer Smart Energy Profile ver 2.0 which runs on TCP, UDP over IPV6 (per the spec document).

[ButchDeal]

Fixed the link.

I didn't intend to convey that it was Zigbee compatible, it is "closer to Zigbee" (than x10) and "based on the original Zigbee protocols" (per the article linked above).

In this particular case, the fridge is running on wifi with the newer Smart Energy Profile ver 2.0 which runs on TCP, UDP over IPV6 (per the spec document).

I think you are miss reading ( and) the article is poorly translated. It is talking about dual stacks similar to a hub but it doesn bridge or do zigbee on Ethernet.

Your other url is still hosed .

[jflorey2]

Your urls are hosed up. In any case zigbee is not compatible with WiFi in any way. A device might do both zigbee and WiFi but you can not do zigbee over WiFi they are inherently different and WiFi works with Ethernet protocol and tcpip. Zigbee is different frequency, protocol and everything.

While Zigbee and 802.11 are indeed different, they use the same frequency (2.4 GHz.) So does Bluetooth and BLE. A few routers speak more than one standard (like Zigbee) but they are not the norm.

[ButchDeal]

While Zigbee and 802.11 are indeed different, they use the same frequency (2.4 GHz.) So does Bluetooth and BLE.

Yes there is some overlap on 2.4ghz but they don't use the same frequency or protocols and are incompatible.
In the US zigbee uses 2.4Gh and 915Mhz

Wifi uses 2.4ghz and/or 5Ghz

A few routers speak more than one standard (like Zigbee) but they are not the norm.

As I noted you can have a bridge or hub that speaks both protocals. A Wifi router that does both ZigBee and wifi would be a hub or bridge.
The Wink hub for one can speak both WiFi, Zigbee, Z-Wave, and bluetooth but that doesn't mean you are doing zigbee on wifi.
You still do not have zigbee on WiFi. It is poor translation that confuses WiFi with wireless and/or dual protocol support at the Device.

[morgandc]

This link isn't working for you guys?
https://www.ei.se/Documents/Projekt/...EP%202pkt0.pdf

https://standards.ieee.org/develop/wg/SEP2.html

http://robbysimpson.com/prezzos/IEEE...n_20150424.pdf

https://www.kitu.io/sep2-or-ieee-2030-5

I am reading it as though there were 4-5 standards, one of them being

ZigBee Pro Smart Energy 1.x

. There is a working group (including the Zigbee alliance as a sponsor) that came up with a standard in 2013 that combined pieces of each and was approved. They were trying to make this new standard transport independent as much as possible, but something happened at it is now back to committee for new version. Also, the CSEP website is dead, and I am having a hard time finding anything newer than 2016 with updates. It may be due to everyone calling it IEEE 2030.5 now.

[ButchDeal]

This link isn't working for you guys?
https://www.ei.se/Documents/Projekt/...EP%202pkt0.pdf

https://standards.ieee.org/develop/wg/SEP2.html

I am reading it as though there were 4-5 standards, one of them being true Zigbee. There is a working group that came up with a standard in 2013 that combined pieces of each and was approved. They were trying to make this new standard transport independent as much as possible, but something happened at it is now back to committee for new version.

The second is talking about an application layer on top of ethernet and TCP/IP which is what you get on WiFi, The first is talking about zigbee and wifi separately.

Zigbee is a low level thing, you can combine it with Ethernet protocal to come up with something new but then that will not be ethernet and will not work on WiFi
The " standard transport independent as much as possible" part along with other things means that they are talking about HIGH level stuff technically "Application" level which has little to do with Zigbee which again is low level. They are simply comparing it zigbee in the slide presentation not saying it is zigbee on wifi. The low level of zigbee and wifi are not compatible.