Figuring out where to start & with what equipment for a big system

[jason6586]

Hello everybody, I am new here and also somewhat new to solar power in general so bare with me and know that any help and info is greatly appreciated. My long term goal is to have a property totally off grid if at all possible. On this property my plans are to build a 1,000 to 1,500sq ft cabin & shop building that I'm not sure on size yet along with some small outbuildings eventually. I would like to produce all my own electricity by solar and wind turbine to power the whole homestead so i want to start building my system the right way so i have the right pieces in place for the future and be able to quickly add whatever components needed to make it perform how i need it to. My main question is what kind of equipment do i need to start off with in order to run an average household and other outbuildings and also have access to 220v power. I'm sure i will need more or higher capacity batteries or other equipment and that is fine. I realize it may cost a fair amount to be able to make 220 but I'm prepared to spend a reasonable amount inorder to make that happen. I'm not sure how i can utilize them but i do have 2 giant forklift batteries available that my uncle has and has no use for, they are about 4' wide by 5' long and 4' deep or so and weigh 3800 lbs so i would think i should be set up pretty good for storage starting out. If i can utilize those forklift batteries my uncle has access to 2 or 3 more of them that i could get for a very reasonable price.

When it comes to why i want 220 it would mostly be for my shop so i could run my air compressor, small/mid size mig welder, plasma cutter & a few other things in the shop. The other things i would need 220 for would be my well pump most likely, clothes dryer, stove/oven and whatever else i might need. The thing about the 220 is i wouldn't be needing to use it non stop all day long, my air compressor might run for 10-20 minutes once to three times a day once every other to every third day or less. 220 would be used more sparing than 110 by a long shot. Any and all info, ideas or comments will be greatly appreciated and i thank you in advance!

[ButchDeal]

When it comes to why i want 220 it would mostly be for my shop so i could run my air compressor, small/mid size mig welder, plasma cutter & a few other things in the shop. The other things i would need 220 for would be my well pump most likely, clothes dryer, stove/oven and whatever else i might need. The thing about the 220 is i wouldn't be needing to use it non stop all day long, my air compressor might run for 10-20 minutes once to three times a day once every other to every third day or less. 220 would be used more sparing than 110 by a long shot. Any and all info, ideas or comments will be greatly appreciated and i thank you in advance!

220 or really 240V is not a problem for off grid though your reasons for wanting it are.

you want to use an electric clothes dryer, electric oven, electric stove top, mig and plasma cutter, and basically a complete shop all off grid.

Further how old are these fork lift batteries? have they been maintained properly?

Why are you wanting to do all this "off grid"? save money? That will not happen.
Where is this all located?

[SunEagle]

Hello jason6586 and welcome to Solar Panel Talk

I would say you need to do at least 2 things.

The first is to calculate your estimated daily watt hour consumption. That will be the starting point to determine how big the battery system needs to be.

The next item is to determine your lowest amount of sun insolation hours. That usually happens in the Winter and can be as short as only 2 depending on where you live in the world.

Get that information and then we can determine if those forklift batteries will be of help or not.

[bcroe]

You might look into a wood gasifier, to run a substantial Internal Combustion engine, which
runs a big generator and provides your heat. Have a small battery for some LED lights
when the generator is shut down. good luck, Bruce Roe

[max2k]

Hello everybody, I am new here and also somewhat new to solar power in general so bare with me and know that any help and info is greatly appreciated. My long term goal is to have a property totally off grid if at all possible. On this property my plans are to build a 1,000 to 1,500sq ft cabin & shop building that I'm not sure on size yet along with some small outbuildings eventually. I would like to produce all my own electricity by solar and wind turbine to power the whole homestead so i want to start building my system the right way so i have the right pieces in place for the future and be able to quickly add whatever components needed to make it perform how i need it to. My main question is what kind of equipment do i need to start off with in order to run an average household and other outbuildings and also have access to 220v power. I'm sure i will need more or higher capacity batteries or other equipment and that is fine. I realize it may cost a fair amount to be able to make 220 but I'm prepared to spend a reasonable amount inorder to make that happen. I'm not sure how i can utilize them but i do have 2 giant forklift batteries available that my uncle has and has no use for, they are about 4' wide by 5' long and 4' deep or so and weigh 3800 lbs so i would think i should be set up pretty good for storage starting out. If i can utilize those forklift batteries my uncle has access to 2 or 3 more of them that i could get for a very reasonable price.

When it comes to why i want 220 it would mostly be for my shop so i could run my air compressor, small/mid size mig welder, plasma cutter & a few other things in the shop. The other things i would need 220 for would be my well pump most likely, clothes dryer, stove/oven and whatever else i might need. The thing about the 220 is i wouldn't be needing to use it non stop all day long, my air compressor might run for 10-20 minutes once to three times a day once every other to every third day or less. 220 would be used more sparing than 110 by a long shot. Any and all info, ideas or comments will be greatly appreciated and i thank you in advance!

you need a plan- sketch of the future layout to estimate distances, loads at each location in terms of peak kW as well as daily kWh so you could easily calculate your needs. Then we can talk how to get you there. Doing this piecemeal will waste a lot of money.

[Sunking]

So ask yourself a stupid question.

Name 5 good reasons you want to pay 5 to 10 times more for electricity the rest of your life and spend a lot of time without power and fixing your solar system?

That is just 5 silly reasons. I bet you cannot come up with one good reason you want to pay 5 to 10 more than you are now. Please tell us so we all know.

[Mike90250]

Well, you ask lot, and will pay a lot. it CAN be done.
First, off-grid electric costs 10x what grid would cost. If you have grid power nearby, going with Grid is a no-brainer. Add Solar Grid Tie to zero out your bill and you are done. Add a generator for the odd times grid is down, and you are prepped.
if the cost of bringing Grid to the buildings is prohibitive (more than $20K), then you have no choice to spend a bunch of $$ for off grid, but you can save a lot just forget the wind generator, unless you want one as a toy, Areas with enough wind for generation, nobody wants to live there (too windy).
Getting 240VAC is easy, you just pay $$ for the gear.
But heating stuff, you gotta use propane, unless you are gas phobic. This Solar Clothes Dryer is best: jcpenney.com/p/household-essentials-outdoor-parallel-dryer Small footprint, easy to use.
Cooking, an induction hot plate is about the most efficient anywhere
HVAC, a Mini-Split heat pump works well for cooling, but in winter, when you need heat, not a lot of solar coming in to generate power, so a backup generator is needed. Propane again for heat.

[jason6586]

Thank you all for the replys, it may not be a economically feasible idea after hearing that the cost will be so high. I was under the impression that i would have my initial cost of setting up the solar system and then have free power for the next 20 or so years. The reason i was looking at this route is i inherited 137 acres of land locked property that i believe i have worked out a deal with the landowner next to me to put in a driveway along our joint fenceline. If so my driveway would be about 1.5 miles long that would run into a dead end road. The reason for wanting solar is the nearest power pole is over 5 miles away. I would love to build a homestead out there and be secluded but i have these obstacles to deal with. Thanks for taking the time to deal with me and my very limited knowledge on solar and not calling me a bunch of names and tell me how stupid i might sound. Lol

[Mike90250]

.......The reason i was looking at this route is i inherited 137 acres of land locked property that i believe i have worked out a deal with the landowner next to me to put in a driveway along our joint fenceline. If so my driveway would be about 1.5 miles long that would run into a dead end road. The reason for wanting solar is the nearest power pole is over 5 miles away. I would love to build a homestead out there and be secluded but i have these obstacles to deal with........

OK, so this changes things, Gonna cost a bunch to get power delivered and easements. So that makes a case for off-grid. Still gonna cost a bunch, but the easy way is size a system for batteries, fridge and lighting. Use generator for large loads, big tools..
1 room cabin takes smaller/cheaper system than 4 room house.
Can you get propane delivery for heating / cooking / hot water ?
What's the water source, pond, deep well, city water ?

[max2k]

OK, so this changes things, Gonna cost a bunch to get power delivered and easements. So that makes a case for off-grid. Still gonna cost a bunch, but the easy way is size a system for batteries, fridge and lighting. Use generator for large loads, big tools..
1 room cabin takes smaller/cheaper system than 4 room house.
Can you get propane delivery for heating / cooking / hot water ?
What's the water source, pond, deep well, city water ?

there's nothing stupid in asking questions, IMO it is actually smart way compare to wasting money on incompatible equipment to learn the hard way it is not going to work at the end. I'd approach it from simple financial point of view- find out the price to bring grid over distance you have there and then come here asking what can be done locally within that budget. Having that context would help experts here to provide you with better answers.

[jason6586]

A generator is a possibility, i was just trying to deal with the least amount of constant input to make power but I'm open to it if it will be cheaper in the long run. Propane is more than likely going to be my fuel for cooking and emergency or backup heat since i think I would put in a out door wood burner for my hot water and normal heat either by in floor or heat exchangers in my house and shop plus i would more than likely have one to two fire places in the house. I also thought about looking into solar hot water also, my plans for water are to try to utilize the Artisan well that is on the north west side of my property. The only issue with that is its about an 1/8 mile away from the ideal building site but i can work around that and deal with that if that's my only problem with water.

[max2k]

A generator is a possibility, i was just trying to deal with the least amount of constant input to make power but I'm open to it if it will be cheaper in the long run. Propane is more than likely going to be my fuel for cooking and emergency or backup heat since i think I would put in a out door wood burner for my hot water and normal heat either by in floor or heat exchangers in my house and shop plus i would more than likely have one to two fire places in the house. I also thought about looking into solar hot water also, my plans for water are to try to utilize the Artisan well that is on the north west side of my property. The only issue with that is its about an 1/8 mile away from the ideal building site but i can work around that and deal with that if that's my only problem with water.

fireplaces provide cozy environment to gather around with few drinks but it is pure entertainment feature- they suck in terms of heating efficiency as the smoke coming out of chimney is almost as hot as it was in the beginning. There's just not enough time for it to lose much heat on the way up. Depending how cold it gets you might consider other means as the main source of heat in the winter.

[Mike90250]

So, all the circulation pumps for the outdoor boiler, pumps & frost proofing for the water, all those power loads need to be accounted for too.

Might I suggest looking into a Masonry Heater instead of a fireplace (built as part of the building)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masonry_heater

https://www.niftyhomestead.com/blog/masonry-heater/

Masonry Heater view.jpg

[max2k]

So, all the circulation pumps for the outdoor boiler, pumps & frost proofing for the water, all those power loads need to be accounted for too.

Might I suggest looking into a Masonry Heater instead of a fireplace (built as part of the building)....

that actually works much better and was used for centuries in some parts of the world for heating with good results. Cleaning is a b!tch though so you need to pay attention what are you burning there but the main idea is sound- if hot smoke gets long path to outside it releases more heat to the masonry and that in turn serves as big 'heat battery' for hours after the actual fire is out.

[peakbagger]

There is a lot to be said for hybrid system where you have a generator with a battery bank. The generator is run during high demand periods and to charge the battery bank. When there is low demand you run off the batteries. It reduces your fuel cost substantially. Realistically the inherited land may be a "white elephant" where the up front and long term cost to use it is well what it would cost to have house on the grid. The equipment you will end up buying and ongoing expenses will be a pretty good payment on conventional piece of property and mortgage payments.