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  • #31
    Mike, my compliments for your efforts to resumé the the standardized nomenclature for charging. Still it can be so confusing when you for example read lead acid battery specs, even from a respectable company like Northstar, see attached screenprint.

    Then, like I said before, users want to install their chargecontrollers and it can happend that the manuals use other terms.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by GeorgeF; 09-20-2020, 09:39 AM.

    Comment


    • #32
      I say take the best from Battery University and your battery mfg, and work for something reasonable between the two.

      With solar, unless you are way way heavy on the PV, it's hard to overcharge batteries. Many more die from undercharge.
      Ignore the screen data from your friend that you posted, something is really wrong there, it's not behaving properly if it was programmed right.

      https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/...ased_batteries lots and lots of links to follow there, stick with the ones for your style battery.
      Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
      || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
      || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

      solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
      gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
        I say take the best from Battery University and your battery mfg, and work for something reasonable between the two.

        With solar, unless you are way way heavy on the PV, it's hard to overcharge batteries. Many more die from undercharge.
        Ignore the screen data from your friend that you posted, something is really wrong there, it's not behaving properly if it was programmed right.

        https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/...ased_batteries lots and lots of links to follow there, stick with the ones for your style battery.
        Whats wrong? I think Goerge wrong, he gave misinformation.
        His not my friend, just discussion patner another forum.

        I use lithium baterai and no problem with undercharge.
        He take my screen data Esmart3 MPPT.
        Esmart3 use programming to limit Max Charge Current(Constant Current) and first stage CC mode work basic current control to track MPP.
        User adjustment only CV mode=Boost, Float, etc.

        Comment


        • #34
          There is I think nothing wrong asking about the working of a MPPT controller connected to a to my opinion "dangerous" DIY lithium bank that reports Constant Current Mode (CC) and CV mode while you filled the same voltages for the 3 stages, according to the specs the usual ac-based algorithm cc cv and float, see attachement.

          @Niro, I have also informed you and invited you to join this discussion cause I uploaded your screenprint from a local forum where many seems not to understand that a DIY powerwall can be extremely dangerous cause most of those DIY powerwall builders do not have the knowledge, experience and the required tools to make a bank. There is I think also nothing wrong if for example someone asked here about a youtube video published in other media, like I myself did before.

          Others on the local forum love those thin plates lead acid batteries dumped by telecom companies and those sellers spread too much hoax to convinced innocent consumers to buy them.

          There are from my part no sneeky actions, just trying to find objective info from real experts here and will also give feedback if they do not want to discuss it here.

          I find this forum a very descent forum and and asked others to join also because you and I can learn a lot from knowladgeable experienced professionals here.


          Note:
          about your mppt on this forum,
          https://www.solarpaneltalk.com/forum...ade#post416481
          Attached Files
          Last edited by GeorgeF; 09-21-2020, 12:03 AM.

          Comment


          • #35
            @Niro, why am I wrong ?
            Reading the manual of your mppt the charge algorithm is based as usual with 3 stages , cc cv and float.

            As you can read in the stickies and my above initial post, 3 stage charge algorithm is in fact useless with solar.
            Attached Files

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by GeorgeF View Post
              @Niro, why am I wrong ?
              Reading the manual of your mppt the charge algorithm is based as usual with 3 stages , cc cv and float.

              As you can read in the stickies and my above initial post, 3 stage charge algorithm is in fact useless with solar.
              well now, there are two things here that are different
              1) Li batteries are 98% efficient, opposed to lead acid @ 80%
              2) Li batteries don't suffer from undercharge like lead acid do.

              So while solar is a bit tougher to achieve for lead acid, Li works fine, but you have to have a balanced system where the BMS can command the Charger off, and the Solar still needs to be large enough to keep the batteries charged in bad weather ( or use a generator like many off grid folks do ) Generally, you want to have Li batteries run from 20% - 80% of full, no lower, no higher, or you risk rapidly ruining the cells . But I'm not the Li guy. Just beware the dangers of deep discharge and over charge.
              Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
              || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
              || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

              solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
              gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by GeorgeF View Post
                @Niro, why am I wrong ?
                Reading the manual of your mppt the charge algorithm is based as usual with 3 stages , cc cv and float.

                As you can read in the stickies and my above initial post, 3 stage charge algorithm is in fact useless with solar.
                You read datasheet but you don't understand, if the battery voltage has not yet reached constant voltage (Constant or
                Boost Voltage), the controller operates in CC mode=MPP, delivering its
                maximum current to the batteries (MPPT Charging).

                You can see in my screen data, voltage setpoint for CV mode.

                In CC mode you can programming adjust limit Ampere to protect your battery.
                Constan Current just protection system if PV mpp can delivered more much power.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by GeorgeF View Post
                  There is I think nothing wrong asking about the working of a MPPT controller connected to a to my opinion "dangerous" DIY lithium bank that reports Constant Current Mode (CC) and CV mode while you filled the same voltages for the 3 stages, according to the specs the usual ac-based algorithm cc cv and float, see attachement.

                  @Niro, I have also informed you and invited you to join this discussion cause I uploaded your screenprint from a local forum where many seems not to understand that a DIY powerwall can be extremely dangerous cause most of those DIY powerwall builders do not have the knowledge, experience and the required tools to make a bank. There is I think also nothing wrong if for example someone asked here about a youtube video published in other media, like I myself did before.

                  Others on the local forum love those thin plates lead acid batteries dumped by telecom companies and those sellers spread too much hoax to convinced innocent consumers to buy them.

                  There are from my part no sneeky actions, just trying to find objective info from real experts here and will also give feedback if they do not want to discuss it here.

                  I find this forum a very descent forum and and asked others to join also because you and I can learn a lot from knowladgeable experienced professionals here.


                  Note:
                  about your mppt on this forum,
                  https://www.solarpaneltalk.com/forum...ade#post416481
                  If you know lithium dangerous, don't do it for yourself.
                  But if you have knowledge to make it safety, do it for you self.

                  You know DIY terms?
                  I am do it not for yourself.
                  ​​​​​​

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Niron View Post
                    If you know lithium dangerous, don't do it for yourself.
                    But if you have knowledge to make it safety, do it for you self.

                    You know DIY terms?
                    I am do it not for yourself.
                    ​​​​​​
                    I think you ment that you are making lithium powerwall for yourself and not for others.

                    Well, what I understand is that most of the DIY lithium guys do not have the knowledge, experience and the required tools to make a powerwall that can be considered as safe. I've already seen dangerous examples with different kind of lithium cells in one pack which looks like a pack of "fireworks". So if you considered yourself a pro, perhaps you can upload a pict of your DIY pack under this thread:
                    https://www.solarpaneltalk.com/forum...-not-dangerous

                    The warnings here from pro's are also ment to protect yourself and your family and especially to warn others that it can not be considered as "normal" but has to be considered as "dangerous".

                    Coming back to the initial post here, I am just wondering why your MPPT reports the stages since you have filled 3 same voltages for bulk, absorb and float. Perhaps it is just simple: before it hits 52.8v it automatically reports CC then CV.

                    As Sunking preciously stated, set bulk = absorb = float and you've turned your MPPT to a "floatCharger", which in case of LFP is very effective especially if you have loads during peak hours. (see attachment)
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by GeorgeF; 09-22-2020, 01:55 AM. Reason: Typos

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      What tools are you using, Pro?
                      I only buy bms and make other safety components.
                      Like the IoT monitoring, etc
                      Attached Files

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by GeorgeF View Post

                        As Sunking preciously stated, set bulk = absorb = float and you've turned your MPPT to a "floatCharger", which in case of LFP is very effective especially if you have loads during peak hours. (see attachment)
                        And you says my mppt datasheet wrong?
                        You can see in my screen data: where is Bulk Voltage?

                        ​​​​
                        ​​​​​​



                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Niron View Post

                          And you says my mppt datasheet wrong?
                          You can see in my screen data: where is Bulk Voltage?

                          ​​​​
                          Did i say that your datasheet is wrong?

                          I was just wondering wether any MPPT controller, also yours, can be turned into a one stage charger.

                          The manual of your MPPT describes:
                          * Constant Current (CC) charging = BULK charging,
                          * Constant Voltage charging (CV) and
                          ​​​​* Floating charging which they abbreviate as "CF".

                          Perhaps I misunderstood this particular manual which is I think is similar to the usual 3-stage charge algorithm of other regular charge controllers.
                          Attached Files

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Turn on one stage charger MPPT?
                            For me, it's impossible to do that, in deep depth of Discharge, charger needs the battery voltage reaches the constant voltage set point and the controller will
                            start to operate in constant voltage charging mode

                            As I said before, Constant Current as a protection system does not need to be filled with setpoint voltage, an algorithm that tracks itself and when it is met Constant Current: that's a current limiting protection system, no need to cut off.

                            Different in the discharge position = overcurrent = Cut off.
                            Last edited by Niron; 09-22-2020, 09:58 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              English is also not my native language. Is someone here who perhaps understand Niro's last reply.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Same as in my screen data:

                                When the sun rises, the PV voltage has not reached> 52.8V
                                If One stage charger Constant Voltage, MPPT Buck Converter need PV Voltage > 52,8.

                                PV Voltage 49.1V mppt it is already charging, this is CC mode.
                                Attached Files
                                Last edited by Niron; 09-22-2020, 08:14 PM.

                                Comment

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