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Airstream 1967 off grid plan

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Wrybread View Post
    Oof, portable solar systems are my bane. They're such a hassle to carry and store, and the best place to store them is on the roof anyway. You might want to go to an Air Stream forum and see how they're solving it?
    Well I like the idea of having the panels in the sun while my RV is in the shade. Also having the panels on a tilting bracket allows me to adjust the angel and direction to get the most out of them.

    But I agree that if they were mounted I would have less work to set them up.

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    • #62
      Good point on being able to park in the shade.

      A google image search for "air stream solar" shows a lot of ideas, both rigid and flexible:

      https://www.google.com/search?q=sola...iw=375&bih=591

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      • #63
        Airstream skin is a very thin aluminum (.032-inch) riveted to U-Frame aluminum channels. Not much thicker than a soda can and you can poke a hole in it with a screw driver without much effort. It will not support panels with reinforcement, and even then if wind catches it can still rip a panel right off taking the skin with it. The only good way you can attach a panel is on the side on hinges, and to supply the reinforcement is from the inside removing the wall panels and insulation. You would be well advise doing what we did; use an umbilical cord with panels on stands with adjustable tilt from simple aluminum channel or even 1 x 1 wood framing. Think Chase Lounge Chairs. To transport you just stand them on their sides, slide in, and secure with a bungee cord to a wall or table.
        MSEE, PE

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        • #64
          Airstream skin is a very thin aluminum (.032-inch) riveted to U-Frame aluminum channels. Not much thicker than a soda can and you can poke a hole in it with a screw driver without much effort. It will not support panels with reinforcement, and even then if wind catches it can still rip a panel right off taking the skin with it. The only good way you can attach a panel is on the side on hinges, and to supply the reinforcement is from the inside removing the wall panels and insulation. You would be well advise doing what we did; use an umbilical cord with panels on stands with adjustable tilt from simple aluminum channel or even 1 x 1 wood framing. Think Chase Lounge Chairs. To transport you just stand them on their sides, slide in, and secure with a bungee cord to a wall or table.
          "You'd be well advised", ha. Let's just say I consider the jury still out.

          Anyway, up until a few years ago I owned a 1956 Spartan "Royal Mansion" trailer. 45 feet long! Very similar construction to Airstreams, a thin aluminum skin mounted to aluminum channels. It was *plenty* strong enough to walk on carefully, meaning stick to the frame, which is evident by the rivet lines. Googling a bit I see it's the same for Airstreams, which have a weight limit of 250 pounds on the rivet lines. I didn't research your year specifically, so definitely confirm that before walking on your roof, but obviously those rivet lines are going to be your strongest mounting points.

          And there's a whole lot of smart people with Airstreams, so I'm guessing there's some tried and true systems and equipment, I'd try to find out what they are.

          And about your fridge, do you already have one? If not, I've seen a lot of this particular model in the vintage trailer community, since they're so efficient (and since vintage trailers tend to not have fridges):

          https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0012EGZ9S

          I have a good friend who swears by his, and he only has 240 watts of panels on his trailer. According to him the secret sauce is the "Danfoss compressor", but I don't know anything about them other than what he says. I keep bugging him to add more solar wattage, since it's so cheap and easy, but he says he doesn't need to, so that says a lot. And he doesn't have a generator or any other power, just two Trojan T105's and the panels. And he runs a ton of lights, tunes and a Macbook besides the fridge.

          I haven't researched it much, but here's some further reading on that model, including a mod that extends the life and improves them:

          http://www.cheaprvliving.com/forums/...y-usage-please

          http://forum.expeditionportal.com/th...light=edgestar
          Last edited by Wrybread; 05-28-2017, 03:45 AM.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Wrybread View Post
            Good point on being able to park in the shade.

            A google image search for "air stream solar" shows a lot of ideas, both rigid and flexible:

            https://www.google.com/search?q=sola...iw=375&bih=591
            You are correct. There are a lot of different mounting options. I do like the ones that can be tilted toward the sun instead of just laying flat. At least that will get more out of them.

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            • #66
              We have found it advisible to determine where the shade will be during day and set up accordingly. We have found that siting such that we have sun in morning and shade in mid-afternoon on works well, particularly if we can set RV in such a manner that the awning (right side) provides shade in morning and trees provide shade in afternoon. Solar is fully charged by mid-morning and we can run air conditioning (if necessary) for 3 or 4 hours as combination of solar and LFP battery suite. Ran air conditioning, hot water, and fridge one day in late June while sited at 10,400' in Rockies and we harvested 8400 W. Just wanted to see what we could obtain. Did not need to run a/c, just for information. It was 75 F during day and 38 F at night. We have 1400 W on 5th wheel and 415 W on Roadtrek. I can well understand the flexibility of using dismounted panels, but we have sufficient power at present.

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              • #67
                Reed, that is excellent. I will look back to see what your set up is. Thank you for the explanation.

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                • #68
                  Elaine and I believe main thing in boondocking is "Goldilocking" as in "not to hot and not to cold, just right" Some forum had a map that showed where you could travel to have maximum temperature of 75 F each day for the year. Our older son has been in alternative energy since 1991 and he designed and fabricated our systems. Best bet for most folks would be AM Solar in Oregon. They have worked with enough systems that they know where to best locate battery banks, controllers, inverter, and how to run the cabling. They went to LFP last year after several years of consideration. Need to photograph our mounts in the next several day and put them in this thread.
                  Reed and Elaine

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                  • #69
                    solar panel rack.jpg We drove 1000 km on gravel roads with the aluminum Z-mounts, plus another 6000 miles. We got cauaght in 60 mph wind rips in Isthmus of Tehuantapec (Fora that discuss travel in Mexico warn about these winds and seven 18 wheelers were rolled earlier in the year at the same spot neaar the town of Los Ventos, 'The Winds" and our 315 W panel was torn loose. Had to attach to rear of Roadtrek with tie-down straps and Gorilla tape. We did receive comments about "how well does that work tied to back of RV" Had to say it would probably work well headed north but we were headed south. Younger son and family came down to spend a week on beach in Yucatan. Got 1.5" extruded aluminum L-channel and Charlie and I came up with a mount after calling older son (who has been in solar business since 1991) about our concept of a mount. He thought it a good planAttached one L-channel to the frame of the panel after placing 1" x 1/8" aluminum in the channeling of the panel to prevent bolts from pulling loose through the aluminum. Mounted another L-channel to the Roadtrek with self-driving screws and silicone glue. Older son examined mount when we returned and he thinks it an excellent concept. It may be over-engineered but it should stay on. Just examined the mounts for the six x 235 W panels on 5th wheel and may be replacing the mounts on the forward panels with a modification of this. We had a panel pulled loose on a road in Yucatan 18 months ago due to a low-branch on a back road between Valladolid and Izmal. Just got bigger screws and silicone glue.
                    Reed and Elaine

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                    • #70
                      if one wishes to use proper scientific terminolgy for power and storage one should use Joules to remove ambiguity. 1kWh = 3600000J = 3.6⋅106J = 3.6MJ
                      Reed abd Ekaube

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by reed cundiff View Post
                        if one wishes to use proper scientific terminology for power and storage one should use Joules to remove ambiguity. 1kWh = 3600000J = 3.6⋅106J = 3.6MJ Reed abd Ekaube
                        Wow, I have an 18MJ array. Sounds so much larger

                        Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                        || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                        || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                        solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                        gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by reed cundiff View Post
                          if one wishes to use proper scientific terminolgy for power and storage one should use Joules to remove ambiguity. 1kWh = 3600000J = 3.6⋅106J = 3.6MJ
                          Reed abd Ekaube
                          The Phrase "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bulls**t", comes to mind.
                          Not directed at you reed cundiff, It just strikes me as funny. Most people I deal with know so little about RE that they become easily confused with the most basic terminology. Then there are the ones that think they know it all but are so misinformed it's laughable.
                          Last edited by littleharbor; 08-19-2017, 09:00 AM.
                          2.2kw Suntech mono, Classic 200, NEW Trace SW4024

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by reed cundiff View Post
                            if one wishes to use proper scientific terminolgy for power and storage one should use Joules to remove ambiguity. 1kWh = 3600000J = 3.6⋅106J = 3.6MJ
                            Reed abd Ekaube
                            Reed: While it's laudable to be scientifically accurate, it's probably more practical to use the vernacular if it helps explain a concept. With some care and judicious use, using derived units that have been around for some time will usually cause no problem. ICE are sized in litres and rated in horsepower rather than Watts or kilo-Watts. S.I. size pipe still have flanges rated in PSI. Real world stuff.

                            BTW, it looks as if you are equating "scientific terminology" with the S.I. system of units. You can certainly use that definition, but I'd suggest most do not, or at least know the limitations, one being the S.I. system and the metric system, while similar, are not exactly the same in the scientific sense, that is, not definitionally identical.

                            In a way similar to what you write about, and so beating you to the punch, The International Solar Energy Society for a number of years specifically forbad the use of Watt-hours and kilo-Watt hours in all of its publications. The confusion, uproar and PITA eventually caused the editors to see their uptight hubristic attitude for the B.S. it was.

                            Google "S.I. system of units" for more.

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                            • #74
                              Sorry J.P.M and little harbor - Just trying to be funny. Nothing like doing the conversion of CGS to MKS while an undergraduate. As you are aware, CGS is pretty only used for sub-atomic world. We used only SI for our work at Army Research Labs (White Sands Missile Range) where I was a senior physicist. In reality, I do prefer Watt-hours for battery capacity since Amp-hours is dependent upon actual voltage of the battery suite. I have seen a number of posts that think that Amp-hours at 6 V is the same as Amp-hours at 12 V.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by reed cundiff View Post
                                Sorry J.P.M and little harbor - Just trying to be funny. Nothing like doing the conversion of CGS to MKS while an undergraduate. As you are aware, CGS is pretty only used for sub-atomic world. We used only SI for our work at Army Research Labs (White Sands Missile Range) where I was a senior physicist. In reality, I do prefer Watt-hours for battery capacity since Amp-hours is dependent upon actual voltage of the battery suite. I have seen a number of posts that think that Amp-hours at 6 V is the same as Amp-hours at 12 V.
                                Understood. No apology necessary to me. I try to remember to use the comic-sand font when attempting humor.

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