Need Planning Help

**Mike90250** · 10-29-2016, 02:30 AM

No and Stop. Don't buy anything. We can't help you if you have opened boxes of the wrong gear and can't return it.

1Kw of loads (in solar, we always round up, saves disappointment later), your load is very close to 958wH
you need 4kwh of battery to only discharge to 75% daily.
> 165AH 6-V gives you just 990wh, you will need 4 of these batteries wired in series/parallel for a 330ah 12v bank,
What is your backup plan if it's cloudy and no solar charging ? Generator? Automotive charger and ext cord ?
And going to larger battery, you need more solar panel. You can over-panel the sunsaver controller a bit, and the extra power only happens on the
sunny day following clouds

Instead of getting an inverter (power waster) for the LED lights, look at the 12V LED garden pathway lights, Morningstar makes a charge controller with a
nighttime lighting function & MPPT http://www.morningstarcorp.com/products/sunsaver-mppt/

**JimmyFree** · 10-29-2016, 07:48 AM

Originally posted by Mike90250

No and Stop. Don't buy anything. We can't help you if you have opened boxes of the wrong gear and can't return it.

1Kw of loads (in solar, we always round up, saves disappointment later), your load is very close to 958wH
you need 4kwh of battery to only discharge to 75% daily.
> 165AH 6-V gives you just 990wh, you will need 4 of these batteries wired in series/parallel for a 330ah 12v bank,
What is your backup plan if it's cloudy and no solar charging ? Generator? Automotive charger and ext cord ?
And going to larger battery, you need more solar panel. You can over-panel the sunsaver controller a bit, and the extra power only happens on the
sunny day following clouds

Instead of getting an inverter (power waster) for the LED lights, look at the 12V LED garden pathway lights, Morningstar makes a charge controller with a
nighttime lighting function & MPPT http://www.morningstarcorp.com/products/sunsaver-mppt/

Thanks very much for your reply. I surely don't intend to buy a single thing until I understand from here what I am doing.

Hmmm. $400 in batteries, and with no wiggle room in the event of a cloudy day. So-- it seems to me that building the Taj Mahal of chicken coops is out of the question.

I actually have a few of these lights: https://www.amazon.com/Arcon-50564-S.../dp/B00GUAAVB2 They are bright enough. So no inverter.

I can eliminate the fans by building the coop for convection on the hottest of days.

Water heater is only needed on the very coldest of days - just to keep the water above freezing. I doubt it would be on for more than a half day over the entire winter, when all is said and done. The reason I think this is that inside the coop should not fall too far near freezing But I will just nix it for now and manually deal with water on freezing days.

SO - watt hours would now be:
Lights 19.2
Fencer 480

Total 500wh

How does that sound in view of the single 160 watt panel, mppt controller, and two 6-volt batteries? Will that provide at least a day's worth of wiggle room - in the event of a "sunless" day?

Thanks again for your help.

**JimmyFree** · 10-29-2016, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by Mike90250

No and Stop. Don't buy anything. We can't help you if you have opened boxes of the wrong gear and can't return it.

1Kw of loads (in solar, we always round up, saves disappointment later), your load is very close to 958wH
you need 4kwh of battery to only discharge to 75% daily.
> 165AH 6-V gives you just 990wh, you will need 4 of these batteries wired in series/parallel for a 330ah 12v bank,
What is your backup plan if it's cloudy and no solar charging ? Generator? Automotive charger and ext cord ?
And going to larger battery, you need more solar panel. You can over-panel the sunsaver controller a bit, and the extra power only happens on the
sunny day following clouds

Instead of getting an inverter (power waster) for the LED lights, look at the 12V LED garden pathway lights, Morningstar makes a charge controller with a
nighttime lighting function & MPPT http://www.morningstarcorp.com/products/sunsaver-mppt/

I got the watt hours down to 500 (499.2) by using different lights and no fan (will use convection) and no water heater. I explained my thinking in another post, but it was unapproved (for some reason).

Do you think that works, giving me a day's wiggle room in the event of a cloudy day?

Really don't wish to spend $400 in batteries if I can help it.

And what are your thoughts on using a 30AMP controller in this case?

**Mike90250** · 10-29-2016, 12:34 PM

Just 2 6V batteries gives you about 450wh total. That will completely exhaust your batteries daily. You should really stick with the reduced loads and 4 batteries, or plan on NO 2nd day, power and replace batteries yearly. (complete discharge daily, they may not even last a year).
And with needing 600wh of recharge daily, and guessing at 2 hours of sun in winter, you will have to have at least 700w of PV and a 30A mppt controller, there is no wiggle room

**JimmyFree** · 10-29-2016, 03:48 PM

I sense that we are almost there. Please hang in there with me a moment longer.

First of all, I truly thank you for walking me through this. I would have really messed it up going with my previous thinking.

Secondly, I am still not seeing it clearly enough. Please help me understand how two 6V batteries rated @ 165Ah gives me only 450Wh? I thought Wh = Ah * Volts.

Thirdly, I made a mistake in my own favor concerning the fence charger. According to the charger's manufacturer (see http://www.kencove.com/fence/131_Sol...r_resource.php), the high consumption amount for the device is about 3.5 watts (see chart for the 3 joule unit). So I now am assuming 96 watt hours (4w*24h) instead of the original 480Wh for the charger.

Therefore, my watt hours is: 116 for the lights and the fence charger. This means that I can now add the water heater (which would make life much better), which brings my total watt hours to 356.

356Wh is 80% reduction of the 450wh that the two batteries would provide (assuming this is correct). Therefore, I would need 90wh of recharging every day. I am concerned about whether a 160W panel @ 30amps can make this up on a bad day. Your thoughts?

Fourthly, I was under the impression (based on a post that I read here) that 80% reduction of deep cycle batteries is preferable. But perhaps that is not true. If not, Sam's Club has a battery with a 20amp hour rate of 215. And its only about $90.

Does a 215Ah bank help much?

Again - THANKS VERY MUCH.

**Mike90250** · 10-29-2016, 05:05 PM

165 ah x 6V = 990wh x2 batt = 1980wh total, 2 batteries. Whoops - I messed up earlier.
deep cycle batteries should only be taken down 20-30% on a daily basis, leaving 70% charge remaining. The deeper the cycles, the fewer cycles you get.

**JimmyFree** · 10-29-2016, 05:14 PM

Great. So it seems that my 356Wh represents about an 18% daily battery depletion percentage-- which is in the good place, I suspect. The only thing that should concern me now, I suppose, is whether the 160W panel can do the job with a 30AMP mppt controller.

Thanks for all your help!

EDIT: Seems I am just pushing the edge with the system as it is. It seems balanced enough though, and would probably give me more than a day's wiggle room if I don't play around with it.

So I will add the 215Ah batteries. That should help. The Mppt has a feature that "stirs" the battery periodically. Maybe that is standard with Mppt controllers.

I am going to pull the trigger tonight. Will let you know how it goes as I build it.

Thanks once again.

**Mike90250** · 10-29-2016, 06:37 PM

If you go with bigger batteries, you need to increase the PV and the controller, or else there is not enough power to "stir the electrolyte".

**skyking** · 11-04-2016, 10:25 PM

if you have not purchased the panel yet, think about a higher voltage panel. Since you are using an MPPT charge controller you don't need a 12V panel. The price per watt goes way down when you get the higher voltage common panels. The controller will take care of the rest.

**JimmyFree** · 11-08-2016, 04:46 PM

OK. I am thinking of adding another 160 panel. Will see how it goes first.

I have most of the stuff in now. About to mount it and then plug it in. Wondering if I might trouble you concerning the wiring. Here is my plan:

1. 10-15amp fuse from panel to the charge controller (CC). POSITIVE. I think the wire on the panel is 10AWG. So I will leave this, since the distance to the CC will be within the length of the panel cable. If I can change out the existing panel cable, I will change it to 6 AWG. But maybe that is unnecessary.

2. 15 amp fuse on POSITIVE from the CC to the battery. 6AWG cabling.

3. 15amp fuse from CC load terminal POSITIVE to a DC load center positive - 6AWG. A negative wire goes from CC load terminal negative to DC load center negative.

HERE IS WHERE IT GETS WEIRD

4. light #1 is close to the DC load center. So a short 6AWG length to it with a 5AMP fuse.
5. light #2 is 16 ft away What size cable?

Thanks. About to get this finished.

**Mike90250** · 11-08-2016, 06:26 PM

lights are 15w @ 12V = 1.25A ? So # 14 lamp cord works for very short runs. Longer runs, #10 should be plenty. #6 seems overkill.

What I've used (and I've forgotten the gauge) was 12V garden lighting cord, heavy, weather proof zip cord

**JimmyFree** · 11-08-2016, 06:42 PM

OK! That is just great. Thanks so much for all of your help. Really means a lot. If this works, I will return and see if I can share with other newbs.

QTY	DESC	Hours Used	Watts	Total Watts	Watt Hours
2	LED Bulbs	6	14.5	29	174
1	Fence Charger	24	20	20	480
1	Water Heater	4	60	60	240
2	Fans	8	4	8	64

					Total Watt Hours
					958

System Voltage		12		Total Amp Hours	80
Battery Discharge %		80.00%
Battery Size (AH)		100

Need Planning Help

Need Planning Help

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