Originally posted by jflorey2
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legionsolar out of San Jose figures out plug and play.
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Originally posted by jflorey2 View Post"They must be OK with it" "they must have known" "they never told me" - all very poor arguments IMO. The more likely solution is that they were solving other problems and didn't have the time/energy/desire to solve yours.Last edited by Ampster; 11-10-2019, 11:00 PM.Leave a comment:
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Originally posted by Ampster View PostWhy would I pull the meter? My building permit did not say I had to pull the meter. PG & E or SCE never told me I had to pull the meter. They must have known I was self generating because they saw my consumption go down. I have been doing this for over 5 years,
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Originally posted by Mike90250 View PostAnd plug-in (generating appliance) inverters are never allowed in houses, because local generation happens behind the breakers and the wires are not protected
If you unplug the meter, there is now no grid and you can do as you please.
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Originally posted by Mike90250 View PostIf you pull the meter, or disconnect with an approved transfer switch, you can do as you please and the PoCo won't care.
Or just go ahead with your plans of whatever and see what happens...
BTW, I checked and in some states only a licensed electrician can pull a meter. There are 240 Volt un fused connectors back there.Last edited by Ampster; 11-10-2019, 03:43 PM.Leave a comment:
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If you pull the meter, or disconnect with an approved transfer switch, you can do as you please and the PoCo won't care.
Or just go ahead with your plans of whatever and see what happens...
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Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post
Wait on.......
In the meantime I will continue to enjoy the benefits of having a backup during power outages and a source of additional energy so all my grid tie generaton will get credited to my account.Last edited by Ampster; 11-10-2019, 12:55 PM.Leave a comment:
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Originally posted by Ampster View Post
Still waiting.
I'm out of this thread.
Mike: Understood.Leave a comment:
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Originally posted by Ampster View Post.....
I am still waiting for somebody to give me the Civil Code section or any other law in any other state that restricts the right of a homeowner to generate their own electricity. I do understand that Municipal Utilities may have the ability to legislate such restrictions but those cases may be rare.Leave a comment:
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Legionsolar does not utilize a recognized/listed transfer switch. The power co wants a transfer switch. A transfer switch is a mechanical device, not a wireless software control.
They appear to use a current transformer to sense direction and use a wireless signal to command inverters to shut down. This is so wrong on many levels, basic communications security and power line integrity. They are not pushing the envelope, they have torn it open, collected the $ from naive customers, and having a party, while ignorant consumer is clueless. This is the data the OP was wanting.
You appear to have fallen into a condition where you are conflating your wishes with sales speak from unscrupulous vendors.
* Plug-in inverters are not allowed in NEC.
* Having a permit signed off for one, can only be done by mistake.
* And they currently carry no UL cert.
Using one, is unsafe for the homeowner and linemen.
> People should know that in California as long as they install UL approved generating equipment, behind the meter in accordance with local building codes, in a safe manner, they may not need to asked permission of their Investor Owned Utility to operate such equipment as long as it is not connected to the the utility lines.
And yet 300w GT inverters must connect to the utility line to boot up, and are therefore not permitted.Leave a comment:
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Originally posted by Mike90250 View PostYour link explains it perfectly. When a temporary device is generating power, you cannot be connected to the pg& lines, a transfer switch is required.
However, I thought we were discussing PV & inverter generation, not portable or fixed fossil fuel generators.
You are free to walk your own rose colored path. I strongly suggest you not encourage others to accompany you, they can read and make up their own minds
And they reserve the right to inspect gear wired into your house:
Have all additions to your house wiring inspected by your city or county building department.
When installation is complete, call PG&E to let us know about your back-up system. We will make a note in our records to remind our workers of your generator if they are working on an outage in your area. In some cases, PG&E line workers may ask to check your electric generator transfer switch for safety.
If you already have a permanently installed standby generator but you don't know if it's installed properly, call your local building inspector or a licensed contractor for help.
You are responsible for any injuries or damage to your property, your neighbors' or PG&E's, from an improperly installed or operated generator.
I think we have both made our arguments for and against. Let's leave it at that or start a new thread to dive into it deeper id you want to continue this dialogue..
The irony is that the Legionsolar website is bootstrapping off of the argument that I have been making but left out important details.. At least we can agree that the Legionsolar is pushing the envelope and ignoring two important issues which are building department approval and UL certification.Leave a comment:
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Your link explains it perfectly. When a temporary device is generating power, you cannot be connected to the pg& lines, a transfer switch is required.
However, I thought we were discussing PV & inverter generation, not portable or fixed fossil fuel generators.
You are free to walk your own rose colored path. I strongly suggest you not encourage others to accompany you, they can read and make up their own minds
And they reserve the right to inspect gear wired into your house:
A double-pole, double-throw transfer switch (see diagram A2) is the recommended device to keep your generator from backfeeding into PG&E's system. The switch also keeps PG&E's power from re-energizing your house wiring while your generator is running, protecting your generator, wiring and appliances from damage when your service is restored.
Have all additions to your house wiring inspected by your city or county building department.
When installation is complete, call PG&E to let us know about your back-up system. We will make a note in our records to remind our workers of your generator if they are working on an outage in your area. In some cases, PG&E line workers may ask to check your electric generator transfer switch for safety.
If you already have a permanently installed standby generator but you don't know if it's installed properly, call your local building inspector or a licensed contractor for help.
You are responsible for any injuries or damage to your property, your neighbors' or PG&E's, from an improperly installed or operated generator.
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Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
I have no idea, I have no desire to investigate it for you.
I strongly suspect that if you have any Utility connection, you need their permission to connect any sort of device that generates power. They will decide if it meets their criteria, which is often UL 1741.
I have given my knowledge on this, asking me again will just make me grumpy.
Since you are constaently asking, why don't you locate and publish the link that states it's OK, since it seems so meaningful to you.
https://www.pge.com/myhome/edusafety...tricgenerator/
There is nothing in the above that suggests that permission is required. There are the usual caveats that warnings about connecting to or back feeding the PG & E lines. I know @J.P.M feels that generator is not descriptive of what an inverter does but my Permission To Operate refers to my Inverter as a generating device and I found nothing else referring to inverters.Last edited by Ampster; 11-09-2019, 08:38 PM.Leave a comment:
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Originally posted by Ampster View Post.....did not address the question I asked. That question is, do I need permission from any of the California Investor Owned Utilities to install UL1741 certified generating equipment behind my meter?.....
I strongly suspect that if you have any Utility connection, you need their permission to connect any sort of device that generates power. They will decide if it meets their criteria, which is often UL 1741.
I have given my knowledge on this, asking me again will just make me grumpy.
Since you are constantly asking, why don't you locate and publish the link that states it's OK, since it seems so meaningful to you.
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Originally posted by Ampster View PostI also agree with every thing Mike said, but he did not address the question I asked. That question is, do I need permission from any of the California Investor Owned Utilities to install UL1741 certified generating equipment behind my meter?
It is a simple one word answer. From what @SunEagle and @J.P.M. have written previously their answer is NO.
If the answer is yes, show me where it says that in the Civil Code or in any tarriff approved by the CPUC or any policy adopted by the CEC. For the purposes of this discussion I am excluding municipal Utilities or cooperatives not regulated by the CPUC. I am also assuming the a building permit has been issued by the local Authority Having Jurisdiction and the equipment has been certified in acordance with UL 1741.
To be perfectly clear, I am in no way trying to trick Mike into endorsing what the Original Poster is trying to do. I think Legionsolar is being deceptive by calling their product an appliance and implying that one may not need a building permit because one can install it themselves.
Until I find out otherwise, my opinion of what's one of perhaps workable answer to the question that's most likely to lead to the safest and most workable application based on my present state of knowledge is "It depends". That is, it depends on the particulars of the application for safety and also, from a practical and pragmatic outlook, what the AHJ thinks is the best conformance to the code (s)he's charged with enforcing.
My wonder here is partly why are you seem, to me anyway, digging in your heels on verbiage - or the lack of it - in some written code(s) while at the same time mostly ignoring what's the original purpose and intent of most codes in the first place: Safety.Leave a comment:
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