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  • AC Submersible Pump

    i have 2 X 3HP Falcon submersible pumps and want to run Solar On Grid. Could anyone help me how much watt solar panel, how much kwh inverter will require and other parts ?

  • #2
    How long does the pump run each day and how much money do you have?
    MSEE, PE

    Comment


    • #3
      Wow !

      I'd start with switching out the pumps to a 3 phase motor, with a electronic controller/converter That should save some $ right there.
      info:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variabl...ive#Controller
      http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/...Catalog/Drives
      1/2 hp to 3 hp, 230 VAC single/three-phase input VFD

      Are these well pumps or tank/pool pumps? Make sure they are not oversize, because that's what the
      vendor had in stock when you were buying.

      Then I'd look into Grid Tie solar, if the utility in your area allows it.
      Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
      || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
      || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

      solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
      gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Sunking View Post
        How long does the pump run each day and how much money do you have?
        we get sunlight 8am. So my wish is to start my pump at 8am itself. it run 8hours a day. Money is not issue. But it should run in on grid system

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
          Wow !

          I'd start with switching out the pumps to a 3 phase motor, with a electronic controller/converter That should save some $ right there.
          info:
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variabl...ive#Controller
          http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/...Catalog/Drives
          1/2 hp to 3 hp, 230 VAC single/three-phase input VFD

          Are these well pumps or tank/pool pumps? Make sure they are not oversize, because that's what the
          vendor had in stock when you were buying.

          Then I'd look into Grid Tie solar, if the utility in your area allows it.
          Dear Mike

          Thanks a lot for quick detail help. It it viable to connect AC pump with 4Kv Solar Inverter to run 1 x 3hp motor ?
          i.e. Solar Panel to Inverter and Inverter to AC PUMP

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Brijesh View Post
            Dear Mike

            Thanks a lot for quick detail help. It it viable to connect AC pump with 4Kv Solar Inverter to run 1 x 3hp motor ?
            i.e. Solar Panel to Inverter and Inverter to AC PUMP
            No you would need batteries in there to stabilize the inverter. you mentioned grid tie Is that viable or do you experience the rolling blackouts endemic to India. that is driving this project?
            NABCEP certified Technical Sales Professional

            [URL="http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?5334-Solar-Off-Grid-Battery-Design"]http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...Battery-Design[/URL]

            [URL]http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html[/URL] (Voltage drop Calculator among others)

            [URL="http://www.gaisma.com"]www.gaisma.com[/URL]

            Comment


            • #7
              A single phase, 4KW inverter, will NEVER power a 3HP pump to full power. Using a 1:3 VFD as a soft start, you may get it to run, but the losses in a single phase 3hp motor, would require nearly 6KW to run it, and more to start it up. There are internal motor losses, Power Factor Losses and others you likely have not considered.

              PV panels & inverter cannot run a motor directly, you need, as Naptown stated, batteries to stabilize the power.
              Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
              || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
              || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

              solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
              gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Brijesh View Post
                we get sunlight 8am. So my wish is to start my pump at 8am itself. it run 8hours a day. Money is not issue. But it should run in on grid system
                If you get sunlight at 8am, that is not the same as saying that you will be getting a useful amount of power from the solar panels at 8am. There are web sites that will show you the panel output on an hour-by-hour basis through the day, but as a very rough rule of thumb if sunrise to sunset is 12 hours the KwH you get from the panels will be only about five times the Kw rating of the panels. We simplify that by saying that you have 5 sun hours during that 12 hour period.
                But if you cannot run the pump at low power or use batteries, then what little power the panels start to produce at 8am will be wasted until the sun is high enough to actually run the pump directly.
                SunnyBoy 3000 US, 18 BP Solar 175B panels.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
                  A single phase, 4KW inverter, will NEVER power a 3HP pump to full power. Using a 1:3 VFD as a soft start, you may get it to run, but the losses in a single phase 3hp motor, would require nearly 6KW to run it, and more to start it up. There are internal motor losses, Power Factor Losses and others you likely have not considered.

                  PV panels & inverter cannot run a motor directly, you need, as Naptown stated, batteries to stabilize the power.
                  I have enclosed the details of Schneider Electric VFD and solar panel ratings for various motor capacities. However, they do not mention the need for batteries. Also, a few systems have been installed using these drives and panel wattages and apparently they are working fine (have not seen them personally. checked them on youtube.) Have I missed something? Or is there any difference in the actual performance V/S their claims?
                  Altivar 312 Solar Catalog_drive details.pdf Solar PV Panel ratings.zip

                  Thanks in advance for any clarification,

                  Green Regards

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by green_regards View Post
                    I have enclosed the details of Schneider Electric VFD and solar panel ratings for various motor capacities. However, they do not mention the need for batteries. Also, a few systems have been installed using these drives and panel wattages and apparently they are working fine (have not seen them personally. checked them on youtube.) Have I missed something? Or is there any difference in the actual performance V/S their claims?
                    [ATTACH]2750[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]2749[/ATTACH]

                    Thanks in advance for any clarification,

                    Green Regards
                    interesting link... I downloaded what I thought was the 'solar sizer' (but maybe it's not) from Schnieder-electric and see a basic schematic that shows no battery but still can't figure out panel requirements. It needs a 200volt source?
                    Wating to hear more from the experts here.......

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have enclosed the solar panel requirements as specified by Schneider, again as a pdf file.
                      Solar PV Panel ratings.pdf

                      Green Regards.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by green_regards View Post
                        I have enclosed the solar panel requirements as specified by Schneider, again as a pdf file.
                        [ATTACH]2752[/ATTACH]

                        Green Regards.
                        Thanks for update !!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Like I said, it will never work with a single phase pump motor. The link is for a VFD controller, and it can manage the available solar power, and run the 3 phase motor at reduced capacity.
                          Motor reduced = pumping reduced. The Pump Curves become all important.
                          Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                          || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                          || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                          solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                          gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
                            Like I said, it will never work with a single phase pump motor. The link is for a VFD controller, and it can manage the available solar power, and run the 3 phase motor at reduced capacity.
                            Motor reduced = pumping reduced. The Pump Curves become all important.
                            You also have to watch the speed of the motor. If you go too slow the natural cooling affect is negated because the fan blade connected to the motor shaft is turning too slow. Most TEFC motors don't like to go slower than 20 Hz or about 1/3 normal speed for any length of time without external cooling.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
                              Motor reduced = pumping reduced. The Pump Curves become all important.
                              The company has not provided the pump curves. They say they designed it as a CSR initiative and have installed them in remote areas in Africa which are not grid connected. However, the response to the product has compelled them to commercialize it. However, they say they do not have the pump curves.

                              Comment

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