Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

SMA Inverters with Emergency backup?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by peakbagger View Post
    Germany apparently is changing their incentive program to encourage short term battery backup. The theory is that when there is a sudden demand in power due to a plant or transmission line tripping out that the house would "island" for a few minutes until the grid caught up with the imbalance. I am waiting to see what solutions come up for that program
    Yet another flaw in thier energy policy. They do not have enough conventional base load to meet demand. Same thing that is happening in California and Hawaii.
    MSEE, PE

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Sunking View Post
      Yet another flaw in thier energy policy. They do not have enough conventional base load to meet demand. Same thing that is happening in California and Hawaii.
      That's because they are retiring their Nukes. Very short sighted by my book.

      Comment


      • #18
        When are they available?

        I am in the process of obtaining quotes for a 10kw ground mount. This is exactly what I have been looking for. Do we know when its available or anticipated costs?

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by SpiderMA View Post
          I am in the process of obtaining quotes for a 10kw ground mount. This is exactly what I have been looking for. Do we know when its available or anticipated costs?
          At one time they announced planned limited shipments in Feburary. Did not happen. I have not seen a new forecast. No idea of the price, but knowing SMA it may still be a good value but it will cost more for the same power than other brands.
          The largest unit will be 5000 watt output, so your 10kW system could use two of them. I don't know yet whether you can synchronize two to get 12 amp at 120/240 volt or whether it would just give you two independent (not phase related) 12 A 120V circuits.
          You may want to use a less expensive 5kW inverter for the other half of the system if you will not need that much emergency power.
          SunnyBoy 3000 US, 18 BP Solar 175B panels.

          Comment


          • #20
            Germany has plenty of baseload generation, it just takes hours or days to get up to capacity. Even combined cycle gas plants take several minutes to go from off line to full output and everytime they do a fast start it usually reduces the life between major maintenance. Nuke plants dont really help they are generally run at full capacity. The only way Europe is currently dealing with the renewables they have on line is that Norway has a large number of hydroelectric facilitities that can be ramped quickly.

            Germany and Spain both over incentivized solar and are currently dealing with a major fiscal hangover.

            Texas unfortunately doesnt have much large scale hydro, so when the wind stop blowing, the lights go dim and folks with simple cycle gas turbines make a mint. I think ERCOT is still wrestling on how to come up with a way of dealing with large shifts in renewable generation while still meeting NERC standards without tripling the power bills.

            Comment


            • #21
              In Oregon I believe I have read wind sometimes has a negative price - when the grid does not want it the producer shuts down or pays.
              [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

              Comment


              • #22
                Same deal in Texas, Windmills get incentives for every KW produced so sometimes its worth paying to get rid of the power and still break even. I have heard it getting up to $30 per MW cost to sell power into the grid.

                Power pricing is incredibly complex and there are many folks who understand it well enough to figure out how to make money off the loopholes.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Negative per kWh?

                  Sounds like they need more demand such as electric vehicles charging at night, perhaps. A lot of detractors have said that EVs will "kill the grid which isn't ready for them". I think the grid and electric providers are hoping for more demand via EVs.
                  PowerOne 3.6 x 2, 32 SolarWorld 255W mono

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by bonaire View Post
                    Negative per kWh?

                    Sounds like they need more demand such as electric vehicles charging at night, perhaps. A lot of detractors have said that EVs will "kill the grid which isn't ready for them". I think the grid and electric providers are hoping for more demand via EVs.
                    An interesting thought. Just as we now have incentive plans for loads that can be shed under remote control from the POCO, maybe we will see loads that are only turned on when excess energy is available to be sinked, in order to avoid having to reduce the base generation power?
                    Or wind farms with on-site storage?

                    One possible example would be an EV charger that would run at a low power, planning to complete a recharge overnight with not much time to spare, but could be triggered to go into fast charge mode when the grid hits a sudden short term excess of power or is in the process of ramping down in response to RE changes?
                    SunnyBoy 3000 US, 18 BP Solar 175B panels.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by inetdog View Post
                      An interesting thought. Just as we now have incentive plans for loads that can be shed under remote control from the POCO, maybe we will see loads that are only turned on when excess energy is available to be sinked, in order to avoid having to reduce the base generation power?
                      Or wind farms with on-site storage?

                      One possible example would be an EV charger that would run at a low power, planning to complete a recharge overnight with not much time to spare, but could be triggered to go into fast charge mode when the grid hits a sudden short term excess of power or is in the process of ramping down in response to RE changes?
                      Now that would really be a smart grid. Hope the gurus can implement that type of dynamics but I would think it would come at a cost to the consumers.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by SunEagle View Post
                        Now that would really be a smart grid. Hope the gurus can implement that type of dynamics but I would think it would come at a cost to the consumers.
                        It is right in the same league as the potential enhancement to their hybrid technology that Toyota once mentioned but AFAIK has not yet delivered:
                        There would be a link between the Navigation application, with current location and destination, and intermediate elevation information for the route, and the battery charge management system. It would, for example, see that you have a nearly full battery and will soon be approaching a long downgrade and choose to deplete the battery more than normal compared to engine power so that you would have room in your battery for all of the recovered energy during the descent.
                        That has the potential to be awesome. (I live in hilly country.)
                        SunnyBoy 3000 US, 18 BP Solar 175B panels.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by inetdog View Post
                          It is right in the same league as the potential enhancement to their hybrid technology that Toyota once mentioned but AFAIK has not yet delivered:
                          There would be a link between the Navigation application, with current location and destination, and intermediate elevation information for the route, and the battery charge management system. It would, for example, see that you have a nearly full battery and will soon be approaching a long downgrade and choose to deplete the battery more than normal compared to engine power so that you would have room in your battery for all of the recovered energy during the descent.
                          That has the potential to be awesome. (I live in hilly country.)
                          Somehow I am not convinced that the trip down hill will regenerate as much power as the trip up.
                          NABCEP certified Technical Sales Professional

                          [URL="http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?5334-Solar-Off-Grid-Battery-Design"]http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...Battery-Design[/URL]

                          [URL]http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html[/URL] (Voltage drop Calculator among others)

                          [URL="http://www.gaisma.com"]www.gaisma.com[/URL]

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by inetdog View Post
                            It is right in the same league as the potential enhancement to their hybrid technology that Toyota once mentioned but AFAIK has not yet delivered:
                            There would be a link between the Navigation application, with current location and destination, and intermediate elevation information for the route, and the battery charge management system. It would, for example, see that you have a nearly full battery and will soon be approaching a long downgrade and choose to deplete the battery more than normal compared to engine power so that you would have room in your battery for all of the recovered energy during the descent.
                            That has the potential to be awesome. (I live in hilly country.)
                            Sounds exciting. But you are talking about an AI for a car. I am hoping for the "grid" to be a lot smarter so that it will wheel the power generated to areas that need it from those areas that don't. It has to be real fast and humans just don't react fast enough to do this.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Naptown View Post
                              Somehow I am not convinced that the trip down hill will regenerate as much power as the trip up.
                              It definitely won't, not by a long shot. But if you are on the level for awhile at the top you may have at least partially charged up your battery before going down, and it is a shame to waste that energy into braking instead of regen when the battery is full.
                              Normally the algorithm is aggressive toward charging when the battery is below a certain level. This could inhibit that.

                              It is similar in some ways to part of the ultimate grid solution in that it involves sharing of information and planning ahead for predictable changes. (Sees a storm moving toward a big PV farm and spins up more standby capacity, for example.)

                              The several cycle responses needed for grid stability would not change, but slower changes would be made more intelligently.

                              However, studies done by AT&T back in the last century () showed that for an interactive distributed processing network like the long distance phone system, or for that matter the power grid, the chances of catastrophic collapse resulting from a bug or unforeseen input rose dramatically the more identical the nodes became in their hardware and software architecture. Rather than uniformity making the system more stable, it actually made it more vulnerable.
                              SunnyBoy 3000 US, 18 BP Solar 175B panels.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by bonaire View Post
                                Negative per kWh?

                                Sounds like they need more demand such as electric vehicles charging at night, perhaps. A lot of detractors have said that EVs will "kill the grid which isn't ready for them". I think the grid and electric providers are hoping for more demand via EVs.
                                The wind in the afternoon doesn't do much for charging EVs at night.

                                Too much and variable wind can upset the grid controls - demand is not the problem - that is in conjunction with BPA which has the biggest stored hydro capacity of anywhere around.
                                [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X