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  • #31
    Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
    HA ! does the magical inverter fairy arrive and swap the PV and the inverter out while you sleep ??



    beneficial to the lease company. At the end, you have nada, except for some lower electric bills which will jump right up
    I can't speak for all companies, but we monitor our systems closely. Because enphase hooks right into your internet router, we are able to log on to the monitoring system, and check each installed system daily to verify production and troubleshoot (they give a status report right when you log on of systems with issues). In the one instance we had an issue, we simply went to the home, tested the inverter, verified it was malfunctioning, and then replaced it...then left a few bucks under our clients pillow.

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    • #32
      The 300 years is some engineer and marketing guy together and dreaming. Nothing more.

      Still electrolytic capacitors? correct?

      Is there a document that you can copy here or link to about the 10 to 20% more harvest. Everyone makes those claims I am afraid - all the competitors say the same thing - soon we should be reaching 1000%!

      I guess the 'kicker' is the use of the word can. If a crow sits on one panel for a few minutes and craps when departing, shading a portion they can claim wonderful things.

      Having said that, the microinverters certainly seem to be gaining market share.

      Russ
      Last edited by russ; 03-08-2011, 02:47 AM. Reason: added
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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      • #33
        Originally posted by SolarSurfer View Post
        ...

        3. The product can harvest 10-20% more energy than a central inverter because a central inverter has to balance itself. If 5% of your system is affected by shade then the entire system experiences a downshift in energy harvest. however, with the enphase, if 5% of your panel array is covered, then only the affected panel is effected. The rest of the panels are operating at the prevalent conditions. Again, the monitoring system allows you to see your full panel array online, panel by panel, and see what it is producing in real time. You can see your lifetime output, weekly, daily, all accompanied by easily understood graphs to demonstrate how much energy you produced that day.
        This is BS. Who in their right mind would put a solar panel in a known shady area ?

        so AFIK, the micro inverters are only for sites with PROBLEMS. I'll say again,

        Ability does NOT equal actual. In a clean, shadowless install, there is no advantage, with prime, binned (matched) panels.

        On the same sunny roof, there is no advantage, unless you are planning to douse the array with water and start hacking with fire axes.


        And come year #3, when an inverter fails, it's going to be a mess to pull a panel with crusty hardware and it's inverter.
        Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
        || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
        || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

        solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
        gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

        Comment


        • #34
          So we decided to do the Solar City thing last summer and yesterday was the big day and we finally got to turn it on.

          I am not about saving the environment or stopping the mythical global warming etc. I am all about saving money.

          I drive a hybrid car because it saves me money on gas. And with prices at $4.00/gallon in my area as of today, my car will only save me more money.

          I leased solar panels from Solar City because they are supposedly going to save me money over the long run.

          Today was the first full day of the panels in action and if I can believe what the inverter tells me, they generated 27.85kWh. My avg daily usage last March was 24.44kWh.

          I guess that time will tell if I end up saving money in the long run. When I ran the numbers they came back with a 9.5 year return on investment doing the lease option. I plan on being in my home for much longer than that so I think I will come out ahead in this deal, much like I have on my hybrid car when compared to driving the non-hybrid version of my car which I had prior.

          Comment


          • #35
            Last summer ... yesterday it was finally turned on?! Yikes!

            I know they have a long lead time, but we were thinking it would be more like 3 months, not 9. Why so long?

            Anyway, thanks for your post, and I hope it works out for both of us.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by sacsolarquest View Post
              Last summer ... yesterday it was finally turned on?! Yikes!

              I know they have a long lead time, but we were thinking it would be more like 3 months, not 9. Why so long?

              Anyway, thanks for your post, and I hope it works out for both of us.
              We signed the lease in late August, so let's call it 6.5 months.

              As for why it took so long, mostly red tape with getting inspections from the city and the power company. It took a month for So Cal Edison to come out from the time it was submitted to them.

              I also did re-roof the house before the installation so the process of getting bids for that and then getting the work done was about a month as well that nothing could be done as far as installing the panels.

              But I have a good roof now that won't leak etc and the folks at Solar City worked closely with the roofers and both are warranted to be free from problems for the next 20 years.

              So had it not been for the re-roofing and the long delay for the SCE inspection, it would have been closer to 4 months.

              Comment


              • #37
                Thanks for the update
                Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                Comment


                • #38
                  Yes, thanks mangoman. That sounds reasonable enough.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Sunking View Post
                    Guess it depends on what you call a good investment. IMO if you cannot double your money in 5 to 7 years, it is not a good investment. At 20 years to break even on you rinitial investment is lousy. In reality you are loosing your shirt as inflation would completely consume it.

                    Example if you invest $1000 today, in 20 years you should be able to cash out $16,000. So if you invest $1000 today and 20 years from now it is only worth $1000, you lost $15,000.
                    With all due respect, if you are good enough to guarantee (or very comfortably believe you will be) doubling your money in 5-7 years in *this present market* you are in the wrong business...unless you moonlight in the investment arena. 10-15% per year, year over year, is aggressive on a balanced portfolio. I agree there were some screaming buys as the market was recovering, but don't quite think that's still the case. My view of the world is:

                    1.) Yields on treasuries and other low-risk investments are next to nothing right now. There are some decent yielding dividend stocks out there, but dividends can be cut and prices can go down.
                    2.) Despite many feeling we were on the verge of a depression just a few years ago, the market has recovered very nicely while there are still substantial fundamental issues that could cause meaningful drops/losses.
                    3.) While it hasn't shown itself to be a serious issue yet, the potential for inflation or stagflation is real.

                    So, getting back to why I chose to go solar, first and foremost we think we're staying in this house a long time. No matter what people say, I don't think the solar system adds that much to resale value (in fact a friend just bought a house that has what looks to be a sizeable system on the roof and they didn't even mention it in the MLS listing.

                    I was of the opinion that a payback period of 7-8 years (assuming historical norms in utlity rate hikes for SoCal Edison) was reasonable. I'm definitely still long on the stock market for the long-term, but personally view this almost as an asset-class within my portfolio that will be paying me a predictable return (my utility bill savings) and serve as a hedge against utility inflation that has been constant here in California. Just my $.02 worth, and of course everybody has their own unique situation.
                    My Sunpower System:
                    [URL="https://www.sunpowermonitor.com/residential/kiosk.aspx?id=2B0B7671-2507-4702-AB24-DA5805D4FF86&type=address"]https://www.sunpowermonitor.com/residential/kiosk.aspx?id=2B0B7671-2507-4702-AB24-DA5805D4FF86&type=address[/URL]

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Stomp View Post
                      With all due respect, if you are good enough to guarantee (or very comfortably believe you will be) doubling your money in 5-7 years in *this present market* you are in the wrong business...unless you moonlight in the investment arena. 10-15% per year, year over year, is aggressive on a balanced portfolio. I agree there were some screaming buys as the market was recovering, but don't quite think that's still the case. My view of the world is:

                      1.) Yields on treasuries and other low-risk investments are next to nothing right now. There are some decent yielding dividend stocks out there, but dividends can be cut and prices can go down.
                      2.) Despite many feeling we were on the verge of a depression just a few years ago, the market has recovered very nicely while there are still substantial fundamental issues that could cause meaningful drops/losses.
                      3.) While it hasn't shown itself to be a serious issue yet, the potential for inflation or stagflation is real.

                      So, getting back to why I chose to go solar, first and foremost we think we're staying in this house a long time. No matter what people say, I don't think the solar system adds that much to resale value (in fact a friend just bought a house that has what looks to be a sizeable system on the roof and they didn't even mention it in the MLS listing.

                      I was of the opinion that a payback period of 7-8 years (assuming historical norms in utlity rate hikes for SoCal Edison) was reasonable. I'm definitely still long on the stock market for the long-term, but personally view this almost as an asset-class within my portfolio that will be paying me a predictable return (my utility bill savings) and serve as a hedge against utility inflation that has been constant here in California. Just my $.02 worth, and of course everybody has their own unique situation.
                      Achievable in the 10-15% range
                      At 10% your money will double in about 8 years
                      At 15% more like the 5-7 year range
                      NABCEP certified Technical Sales Professional

                      [URL="http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?5334-Solar-Off-Grid-Battery-Design"]http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...Battery-Design[/URL]

                      [URL]http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html[/URL] (Voltage drop Calculator among others)

                      [URL="http://www.gaisma.com"]www.gaisma.com[/URL]

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Naptown View Post
                        Achievable in the 10-15% range
                        At 10% your money will double in about 8 years
                        At 15% more like the 5-7 year range
                        I realize it's achievable in that range...my point is I think that range is aggressive given the current market. Later I read that he is an active trader and perhaps he has it figured out, but I remember a number of "professional traders" during the first dot com boom that did well for a period of time, and then got hosed. I'm thrilled being up 1000% on a flier I took 2 years ago (PWAV), but I didn't have the stones or conviction to put enough $$ at it to make it meaningful.

                        I didn't mean to take this too far off-topic...I just think that saying you are doing bad if you aren't doubling your money in 5-7 years (i.e. 10-15% returns) is not really "market" for a balanced approach in this market.
                        My Sunpower System:
                        [URL="https://www.sunpowermonitor.com/residential/kiosk.aspx?id=2B0B7671-2507-4702-AB24-DA5805D4FF86&type=address"]https://www.sunpowermonitor.com/residential/kiosk.aspx?id=2B0B7671-2507-4702-AB24-DA5805D4FF86&type=address[/URL]

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          leasing is a rip off

                          I just bought 15 ul solar panels for $5000. 3000 watts. And i bought a sunnyboy 3000 for 1000 on ebay . I made my own ground mount. I have 6300 total in it. I put my own geo system in. and both my windmills. I am just a irrigation contractor. But i do install 4 systems a week. The solar install was very easy comparred to everything eles. sma and sun elec do all the work for you. All you have to do is put it together. I know a roof mount system would be much harder. But i wouldnt drill holes in my roof or climb up there to clear snow. I am now helping 4 neibors install there own. Mike i got alot of my ideas from you and reading your post. I thank you for that, And those burgers look good on your grill

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            So back in post 34 of this thread I spoke about how my Solar City leased panels were just turned on that day. Here we are now a month later or so and today I got my first bill from So Cal Edison. $1.83. Last year at this time my bill was $111.65.

                            Thank you Solar City. If you are a scam, please feel free to continue scamming me for the remaining 19y 11m of my lease.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by mangoman View Post
                              So back in post 34 of this thread I spoke about how my Solar City leased panels were just turned on that day. Here we are now a month later or so and today I got my first bill from So Cal Edison. $1.83. Last year at this time my bill was $111.65.

                              Thank you Solar City. If you are a scam, please feel free to continue scamming me for the remaining 19y 11m of my lease.
                              Tell us that in 10 or 15 years when you see how it goes then. I know Solar City is happy they have their money in the bank now.

                              Best of luck - hope it works out well.

                              Russ
                              [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Russ,


                                So in 15 years we expect to sell electricity for much higher to the utilities correct? So if we lease then SolarCity gets all the money while if we owned we can sell it for much higher? Is that your reasoning...

                                If your usage is however higher than what you produce how will you sell it to utility company?

                                Bit confused on that front.
                                Tks

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