Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

SolarCity 20-year lease too good to be true?

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Naptown View Post
    That is good output
    It was probably a day with low smog and humidity (assumption) it was a fairly cool day in the high 50's and almost 13 hours from sunrise to sunset. If you look closely at the output curve there is some difference between the morning and afternoon output curves favoring the afternoon This is caused by the west facing modules. This makes me tend to think that the two strings are tracking independently. I will need to check with Fronius about this.
    Well I do live in the desert so humidity and smog are infrequent events. Blowing dust is common. I do go out and spray the panels off every week or 10 days from the blowing dirt that builds up on them, to keep them clean. I would be interested to know what you find out from Fronius. I did dig up my original site plans. Perhaps you can understand them better than I can and determine how everything is wired up. I have no skills when it comes to reading such documentation.S1.jpgS2.jpg

    Comment


    • Originally posted by mangoman View Post
      Somewhere in the 14 pages before this. Still I summed it up for you.

      6.5 months from lease signing to turn on. With a month or 6 week delay for re-roofing the house thrown in. Other than the roofing delay, it took Edison a month to come out and inspect after the install was complete and it also took several weeks for the city inspectors. Remove those delays and we would have been looking at about 3-4 months from start to finish.
      Actually you may have revealed all the particulars on another thread, but not on this one, you had mentioned the delays & a reluctance to discuss the lease

      Ideally threads should stand on their own or link to relevant posts on other threads.

      Comment


      • Tax Credit and Lease

        The one thing I have not seen in this thread, is that much of the incentives that are offered, are in the form of tax credit. The credits for the Feds must be taken within five years. The lease makes sense for people that are retired and who do not have enough taxable income to take advantage of the credits. But who have stashed away enough money to pay the up front lease costs.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by azscooter View Post
          The one thing I have not seen in this thread, is that much of the incentives that are offered, are in the form of tax credit. The credits for the Feds must be taken within five years. The lease makes sense for people that are retired and who do not have enough taxable income to take advantage of the credits. But who have stashed away enough money to pay the up front lease costs.
          Ideally they would have thought of this prior to retirement when their income is higher. however the Federal Credit rolls forward for three years if the taxable income is not high enough.
          NABCEP certified Technical Sales Professional

          [URL="http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?5334-Solar-Off-Grid-Battery-Design"]http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...Battery-Design[/URL]

          [URL]http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html[/URL] (Voltage drop Calculator among others)

          [URL="http://www.gaisma.com"]www.gaisma.com[/URL]

          Comment


          • I explained in my 1st post how Solar City takes a cut of the Oregon State Tax Credit over the course of 4 years, and this is factored into the lower up front price. Taking this into account, the net cost of the system when paying Solar City back was $247 and my payback time was 3 years.

            There is another option besides to structure the Oregon REC with Solar City. You can pay $2975 instead of $1000 on May 1st of the 1st year and be done with it. You'd be collecting $1500 of that $2975 the first year from the state, and the next 3 years just net an additional $1500 from the state. This seems like the way to go, as the net cost turns out to be negative -$778 vs. +$247. Essentially, the feds, state and utilities are paying me $778 to let Solar City put this on my roof, and it will be insured, warranted and have guaranteed production during that time.

            Here's a summary, not taking into account the savings rate. This figured a 2% increase in utilities, this is something I asked about back on page 11 but didn't see a response. System installers at the NW solar expo liked to claim closer to 5% in which case I would save more.

            -$2247 when system installed/turned on.

            then 1st year,
            -$2,975 (to Solar City, after 1 year)
            +$315 (savings in energy)
            +$1,500 (State Credit)
            = -$3,407

            2nd year,
            -3,407 (from year before)
            +321.30 (savings in energy)
            +1500 (state credit)
            = -$1,585.70

            3rd year,
            -1,585.70 (from year before)
            +327.73 (savings in energy)
            +1,500 (state credit)
            = +242.03

            4th year,
            +242.03 (from year before)
            +334.28 (savings in energy)
            +$1500 (state credit)
            = $2,076.31

            5th year
            $2,076.31 (from year before)
            +340.97 (savings in energy)
            = $2,417.28

            Now, people can split hairs hear and say that I could be earning interest on the money paid up front. It affects the purchase option in a worse way because the payback time is MUCH quicker in this scenario vs. the purchase. Also, for the purchase I'd have to partially borrow some of the $12k+ up front price.

            Comment


            • leasing option

              can you please email a copy to kb@glgusa.com. We're looking at leasing as an option
              Originally posted by Bob & Tom View Post
              I just tried to upload my Solar City Lease to this thread. I would be interested to see what you guys think. I think it is a great deal. Problem is the PDF is over 700kb and the max file size I can attach is 78kb.

              If anyone wants me to mail it to them, let me know your e-mail address.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by russ View Post
                You have what sized system? You provide no details except what a wonderful deal you got. When does Solar City give your promotion? At least you can mention system size.

                They oversized your system so you have export power? No one else has reported seeing anything like that.

                You would still pay a meter charge and other items - a 2$ bill - I don't think so.

                Regards
                Russ
                Just got my bill for the month of May. $1.71. If $1.83 wasn't possible and $1.77 wasn't possible, how can it be that today's bill was $1.71?

                Comment


                • Lucky you with the low elect bill
                  Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                  || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                  || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                  solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                  gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                  Comment


                  • I am soo impressed -
                    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

                    Comment


                    • I'm in the process of hiring some contractors to install Solar. many of the companies are really pushing the lease.

                      Just quick question:-
                      i) what happen after your 20 year lease is up ? The solar on top of your roof are theirs or yours?
                      ii) what happen if you "have" to move/sell your house ?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by maestroX2 View Post
                        I'm in the process of hiring some contractors to install Solar. many of the companies are really pushing the lease.

                        Just quick question:-
                        i) what happen after your 20 year lease is up ? The solar on top of your roof are theirs or yours?
                        ii) what happen if you "have" to move/sell your house ?


                        It all depends on the area you're in and the leasing program you're discussing. Most of them after 20 years give you 3 options, A. buy the system at FMV(Fair Market Value), B. Have the system removed at no cost(although the shape they will leave your roof in after that varies greatly) or C. Renew the lease annually.


                        Some will tell you that after 20 years you can buy the system for a set price such as $100.00 which if you consult a tax attorney, they will tell you that is illegal. You can't offer a lease program like they do and disclose an actual amount for
                        purchase value, it always has to be left as FMV at that time.


                        As far as transfer rules, these vary greatly as well, with some companies, regardless of what happens, you're basically locked in and will be paying for that system for 20 years, regardless if you sell the house, with others, the buyer has to be credit-worthy to take the lease and if they don't want the lease, well you're still stuck paying for it. Some let you buy the lease out early for FMV at the 6 year mark while others give no buy-out option until Year 20.


                        On a prepaid lease, you pay everything upfront and then the system is essentially yours for 20 years, easy transfer, no credit needed, system still isn't yours after 20, but can be purchased at FMV or removed at no cost.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by KRenn View Post
                          It all depends on the area you're in and the leasing program you're discussing. Most of them after 20 years give you 3 options, A. buy the system at FMV(Fair Market Value), B. Have the system removed at no cost(although the shape they will leave your roof in after that varies greatly) or C. Renew the lease annually.


                          Some will tell you that after 20 years you can buy the system for a set price such as $100.00 which if you consult a tax attorney, they will tell you that is illegal. You can't offer a lease program like they do and disclose an actual amount for
                          purchase value, it always has to be left as FMV at that time.


                          As far as transfer rules, these vary greatly as well, with some companies, regardless of what happens, you're basically locked in and will be paying for that system for 20 years, regardless if you sell the house, with others, the buyer has to be credit-worthy to take the lease and if they don't want the lease, well you're still stuck paying for it. Some let you buy the lease out early for FMV at the 6 year mark while others give no buy-out option until Year 20.


                          On a prepaid lease, you pay everything upfront and then the system is essentially yours for 20 years, easy transfer, no credit needed, system still isn't yours after 20, but can be purchased at FMV or removed at no cost.

                          Thanks.. I talked to one of the installer, he said, the prepaid leasing company won't want the panel back. The cost to remove the system will be more expensive than the panel itself. Asked him whether it is in writing or guarantee, he can't give that.

                          The advantage on prepaid lease, you pay small upfront money and save about $2k over the total cost.

                          I'd just pay the whole system myself. I pay uncle sams way too much every year so $10k tax break will be handful next year.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by maestroX2 View Post
                            Thanks.. I talked to one of the installer, he said, the prepaid leasing company won't want the panel back. The cost to remove the system will be more expensive than the panel itself. Asked him whether it is in writing or guarantee, he can't give that.

                            The advantage on prepaid lease, you pay small upfront money and save about $2k over the total cost.

                            I'd just pay the whole system myself. I pay uncle sams way too much every year so $10k tax break will be handful next year.


                            Don't believe that nonsense. Someone will come for those panels. What he gave you is the common salesmen talk. Those panels will still have value, whether they end up in a recycling program or sold into the third-world.


                            If you have tax liability, I would absolutely go ahead and purchase the system, own it outright and cut off any added strings.

                            Comment


                            • The leasing company most likely will not want the panels back - however they certainly will have a contract with a party to handle that for them and that party will want the panels.

                              If they have thousands of installations that will be a significant income to close out a contract.

                              I would not plan on them not being removed. As was pointed out that is no more than salesman's talk.

                              Russ
                              [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by russ View Post
                                The leasing company most likely will not want the panels back - however they certainly will have a contract with a party to handle that for them and that party will want the panels.

                                If they have thousands of installations that will be a significant income to close out a contract.

                                I would not plan on them not being removed. As was pointed out that is no more than salesman's talk.

                                Russ
                                They are really pushing the PPA. I simply get annoyed with the sales tactics. I already cancel 2 meetings. Screw them and their sales pitch. I know what I want.... I just want the freaking quote.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X