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  • #16
    Do you have a link to where I can get it?

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    • #17
      The two most popular manufactures for hybrid are Outback and Schneider (formely Xantrex). Xantrex hybrid is the SW series.
      MSEE, PE

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      • #18
        So when the grid goes down, the solar is switched to a off the grid inverter.

        http://www.firemountainsolar.com/man...erter-charger/

        Now I have some AC power which can be supplemented in various ways by a generator.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by farmerdoug View Post
          So when the grid goes down, the solar is switched to a off the grid inverter.
          Yeah that is the basic idea, except hybrid inverters are designed to do both in one unit


          http://www.firemountainsolar.com/manufacturer/magnum-energy/magnum-energy-ms-ae-off-grid-inverter-charger/
          Originally posted by farmerdoug View Post

          Now I have some AC power which can be supplemented in various ways by a generator.
          I am not familiar with this company or their products. As I read the spec sheet I do not think it is a hybrid grid tied inverter.

          If i am reading the specs correctly, or rather than what it does not say. it is a standard 24 or 48 volt inverter with built in battery charger, transfer switch, solar panel input. Do not see anything about generator input and GTI capability.

          In other words it is a UPS system. By that I mean in normal operation it takes commercial AC power to charge the batteries, and when power goes off the switch disconnects the AC power, and batteries supply all power until exhausted or recharged. Solar panel charging can be done with solar panel input but like all solar battery systems is extremely limited by the solar panel wattage. With no generator input you are kind of screwed.

          Here is the problem if I am correct about the you can certainly add enough batteries to run your home if you can afford it. So if you limit consumption to say just a refrigerator and a few light you will use about 2 Kwh per day. That requires a 10 Kwh battery at a cost of about $1300, but that is not the end of it. If you want to keep the batteries charged you will need solar panels. To keep up with a measly 2 Kwh of power per day (20 cents worth of power) you will need depending on where you live 800 to 2000 watts of solar panels which is another $16000 to $3000 of expense. Now here is the killer, if the inverter is not a hybrid GTI, all those batteries and solar panels set around all year doing nothing except wait for the power to goes off. You would not be grid tied to be able to sell excess power back to the POCO. I don't think that is what you are looking for is it?

          Not sure about that unit so maybe someone else with experience with it can chime in.
          MSEE, PE

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          • #20
            Yes/no. I don't need the charger part of the inverter. I was thinking along the lines of a regular DC - AC convertor such as you would plug into the cigarette lighter in your car.

            I looked at the hybrid system. Its close but I'm not sure I can use it. I don't want any batteries. Therefore, the inverter has to be able to run itself of the solar panels.

            I'm going to call Xantrez in the morning. I'll let you know what the say.

            Thanks for all your help.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Sunking View Post
              The two most popular manufactures for hybrid are Outback and Schneider (formely Xantrex). Xantrex hybrid is the SW series.
              I think it's the XW series, since my inverter has both AC1 & AC2 (genset) inputs. And can sell to AC1 if sun is up and I have no local loads. (if I had a grid to sell to)

              Only the pure GTI inverters can sell without batteries. They need an unlimited grid to dump power into. But GTI won't power up if the grid is down.


              My XW would do both, if I had grid within 1/2 mile.
              Mike
              Last edited by Mike90250; 01-23-2011, 09:27 PM.
              Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
              || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
              || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

              solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
              gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
                I think it's the XW series
                You are right Mike, my bad.
                MSEE, PE

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by farmerdoug View Post
                  Yes/no. I don't need the charger part of the inverter. I was thinking along the lines of a regular DC - AC convertor such as you would plug into the cigarette lighter in your car.
                  Well that is what I have been trying to tell you, and Mike just told you; that is not going to happen. What you just described is a standard battery inverter.

                  There is no inverter that can run from panels alone except a Grid Tied Inverter.

                  Mike has the type of system you are looking for called the Hybrid Grid Tied Inverter. It takes several components. Solar panels, grid tied inverter w built in charger, solar panels, external charge controller to charge the batteries when the power is off, and an generator to charge the batteries when the panels cannot keep up.
                  MSEE, PE

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                  • #24
                    Ok. There may be nothing commercially available but I know that I can still do what I want. Is it foolish?

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                    • #25
                      Quote, 'If the grid goes down for a week or two, it would be silly to let the panels go used. No?'

                      All this to save the power lost in the event the grid is down for a week?

                      You would end up spending a fortune (many, many thousands) to save 50 bucks.

                      Guaranteed you are not going to build an inverter yourself - then you could not grid connect it anyway. Same with other custom units - grid connection wouldn't be allowed.

                      Russ
                      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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                      • #26
                        Russ,

                        I take a very dim view of the future. An aging grid and increasing high fuel and electric costs.


                        "Guaranteed you are not going to build an inverter yourself - then you could not grid connect it anyway. Same with other custom units - grid connection wouldn't be allowed."

                        I don't know you can say any of this.
                        I have a Ph.D. in physics.
                        I wouldn't want to connect it to the grid. Remember the grid is down.
                        Also, who says I care what is allowed and what isn't?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Your doctorate means you are automatically a first class electronics engineer? People build all sorts of crazy things - yes but one of a kind is not cheap or easy. The doctorate means zero to me and most everyone else.

                          The gloom and doom scenarios are popular with some groups but not too much fact included in them. If the grid is down like you suggest it also means civil strife. At least you would have a nice target to have on the roof.

                          UL (or equivalent) equipment/materials are required for grid connections and home owners insurance. You can not get that on homemade or one of a kind equipment.

                          I am outta here!

                          Russ
                          [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by farmerdoug View Post
                            Russ,

                            I take a very dim view of the future. An aging grid and increasing high fuel and electric costs.
                            OK there is already a perfect solution already made for you. Just go with an off-grid battery system, and then with what assets you have left convert it to gold and platinum. Be sure to stock up on distilled water, MRE's, and ammunition.
                            MSEE, PE

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                            • #29
                              Come on guys.
                              First, I have designed and built circuits.
                              My house is free and clear.
                              You don't have to believe in my scenarios to help me do what I want.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Farmerdog I would like to help you out, but I do not think what you want can be done the way you want it done. At least not by a single person on his own.

                                Like I said, there are hybrid systems on the market that do pretty much what you want, but they work completely different than a standard grid tied inverter.

                                I am no PHD, nor would I want to be because I would have to take a huge paycut, but I am a professional electrical engineer of 30+ years who specializes in electrical power generation, transmission, distribution, and utilization so I did not just fall off the turnip truck yesterday

                                With solar power with emergency backup you have three readily available options.

                                • Conventional Grid Tied with generator backup.
                                • Hybrid Grid Tied with battery and generator backup.
                                • Off-Grid Battery system with generator backup.


                                Notice anything in common with the 3 systems? Well there is another option, a fuel cell like a Bloom-Box or Hydrogen fuel cell but those realistically take natural gas connections to the utility. or LPG from your tank.
                                MSEE, PE

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